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Harte Klasse

English translation: hard class

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Harte Klasse
English translation:hard class
Entered by: Christine Lam

00:03 Oct 27, 2004
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Tourism & Travel
German term or phrase: Harte Klasse
in einem Brief aus dem Jahr 1928 (wird jedoch offenbar heute noch gebraucht)
Ich fuhr ueber Sibirien "Harte Klasse", und bezahlte deshalb fuer meine Reisekarte nur RM 000
Dies scheint eine Art "Grossraum-Schlafwagen" zu sein, bestimmt eine schlechtere Kategorie, aber gibt's dafuer eine bestimmte Bezeichnung?
Christine Lam
Local time: 16:02
hard class
Explanation:
sorry - but it's as easy as that!
by contrast with "soft class:
cf. www.concourse.net/bus/wnights/Trans-Siberian.html

I know this from MY travels, in both China and Russia

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Note added at 2004-10-27 08:14:30 (GMT)
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\"hard class\" was wooden seats (hard on the backside!) and soft class was padded seats......

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-10-27 09:20:40 (GMT)
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I would even go as far as saying that there is every likelihood that the German was a translation from the the English in the first place!
Selected response from:

CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 22:02
Grading comment
thank you so much for everyone's input. If it really is as simple as that, I will go with this option.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +4"platzkartnij/platzkartnii/platzkartniy"
Hilary Davies Shelby
4 +2second class coach
Dmytro Voskolovych
4 +2hard class
CMJ_Trans (X)
4 +1Obschij vagon
Tanya Sav
4steerage
Mary McCusker
3harsh class or austere class or lowest possible class
Dr. Fred Thomson
3 -1Cattle class
Allesklar


  

Answers


20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
second class coach


Explanation:
Talking about Russian: actually it's called not "platzkartnii" but rather "obshchij" which is literally "common". In such a coach there are no separate compartments and it is packed with people, sleeping on hard berths (sometimes three berths high). So i guess that is what is called second class coach

www.semg.org.uk/coach/codes.html
The following codes come from instructions dated August 1954 and June 1960. It must be borne in mind that *third class was abolished in 1956, at which time all Third Class (T) became Second Class (S)*.


Dmytro Voskolovych
Local time: 23:02
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Robert Schlarb: Why not third class then, if the description goes back to 1928?
6 hrs
  -> that my be as well, thanks!
agree  shabda
9 hrs
  -> thank you!
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
"platzkartnij/platzkartnii/platzkartniy"


Explanation:
I know you are looking for the English term - I don't know it either, but I know this is what it is called in Russian - maybe Googling that would help? (And yes they do still have it, I travelled "platzkartnij" from Moscow to Tallin in 1986). It's a third-class carriage full of bunk beds!
Hope this helps ;-)

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Note added at 14 mins (2004-10-27 00:18:03 GMT)
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oops - I mean in 1996 - not that it really matters! ;-)

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Note added at 25 mins (2004-10-27 00:29:02 GMT)
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Also \"platzkarta/platskarta\" - \"platzkartnij\" is the adjectival form.
I\'ve just managed to find a picture of one on someone\'s web site for you - as you\'ll see it\'s very narrow, with 3 levels of bunk beds, and everyone talks to each other and shares food...
http://www.zpok.hu/~fjoo/carszko5.jpg

Hilary Davies Shelby
United States
Local time: 15:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Laurel Porter (X): Perhaps if Christine can't find a specific English term, she could use the Russian with a parenthetical explanation such as "the train equivalent of steerage"...
2 mins
agree  sonja29 (X)
2 hrs
agree  Norbert Hermann: I would call it 3rd class
7 hrs
agree  Mario Marcolin: 3rd class. BTW this kind of class was common all over Europe until WWII at least :)
16 hrs
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Obschij vagon


Explanation:
Plackartnij might be, but obschij is a worse typy of carriage, where you have to sit and can not lay down, there are usually a lot of people and those carriages usually do not go for a very long distance. That is what I think Harte Klasse might be.

Tanya Sav
Native speaker of: Native in BelarusianBelarusian, Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  verbis
15 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Cattle class


Explanation:
I think 'harte klasse' is colloquial. 'Cattle class' could be the equivalent, or maybe 'rough class'.

Allesklar
Australia
Local time: 05:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Hilary Davies Shelby: I feel that "cattle class" could have very negative connotations, makes me think of people being transported in cattle trucks
1 hr
  -> so does 'harte klasse' IMO...
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
harsh class or austere class or lowest possible class


Explanation:
There may be no precise standard translation. You may have to use a descriptive term such as "lowest possible class" or "peasant class."

Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 14:02
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 26

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Hilary Davies Shelby: not "peasant class", please! People DO actually travel in these things!
36 mins
  -> Context must be considered, Hilary. This was 1928.
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
steerage


Explanation:
This is the term used, for example, for immigrants coming to the US by boat in previous centuries. Accommodation was usually in large, overcrowded spaces in the hold of the ship. 'Steerage' still used jokingly to denote economy class on planes.

Mary McCusker
Local time: 16:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
hard class


Explanation:
sorry - but it's as easy as that!
by contrast with "soft class:
cf. www.concourse.net/bus/wnights/Trans-Siberian.html

I know this from MY travels, in both China and Russia

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-10-27 08:14:30 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"hard class\" was wooden seats (hard on the backside!) and soft class was padded seats......

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-10-27 09:20:40 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I would even go as far as saying that there is every likelihood that the German was a translation from the the English in the first place!

CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 22:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 42
Grading comment
thank you so much for everyone's input. If it really is as simple as that, I will go with this option.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Moore (X): ...and this is certainly what it's called in England, even if it did disappear there in the late 1800s....
1 hr
agree  tnkw (X): This is exactly the right translation.
1 hr
neutral  Hilary Davies Shelby: but this doesn't mention the "Grossraum-Schlafwagen" the asker is talking about...
4 hrs
  -> it makes no difference - hard = couchette; soft = bed/berth
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