German term
Irrtum und Zwischenverkauf, Vermietung bleiben vorbehalten
Jul 5, 2020 20:21: Andrea Capuselli changed "Visibility" from "Visible" to "Squashed"
Jul 5, 2020 22:35: Andrea Capuselli changed "Visibility" from "Squashed" to "Visible"
Non-PRO (2): TechLawDC, Björn Vrooman
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Proposed translations
Subject to error, prior sale and prior leasing/letting
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Note added at 1 hr (2020-07-05 13:33:23 GMT)
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...denoted...
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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-07-05 13:48:19 GMT)
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If the typo is confirmed, we could also say:
"subject to error, prior sale, prior leasing and/or letting"
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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-07-05 15:51:22 GMT)
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A similar example reads as"
"Subject to error, prior sale or letting arrangements."
https://upmarketproperties.de/en/agbs/
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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-07-05 15:59:20 GMT)
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And the original German source:
"Irrtum und Zwischenverkauf oder Zwischenvermietung bleiben vorbehalten."
https://upmarketproperties.de/agbs/
I agree that it is a typo in the ST as this would make much more sense. Thank you, everyone. |
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: saying "subject to error" implies that there ARE errors and I don't see how it can mean this// where does the site specify this?// you are some sort of self-appointed gatekeeper then?
1 day 3 mins
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A working-level command of German is required to comment on these pages....
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agree |
TonyTK
1 day 6 hrs
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agree |
Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
4 days
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Thank you Harald...
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agree |
Daniel Arnold (X)
4 days
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error, prior sale or lease (are) reserved
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: You can't say "error is reserved" - it makes no sense in English
1 day 1 hr
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(description) subject to errors, prior sale or lease of the property
„Irrtum“ bezieht sich auf irrtümlich gemachte falsche Angaben (etwa zur Größe oder zum Preis der Immobilie).
https://www.finanzfrage.net/g/frage/was-heisst-zwischenverka...
disagree |
Chris Pr
: This is a direct copy of an existing entry... // Edited to reflect the blatantly 'partisan' intervention...//Sorry Johanna, but a third-party has forced the move...//I didn't say anything about 'habitually and mindlessly'.... ;)
2 hrs
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Thank you for your comment! These things (posting similar answers) do happen, and I’m truly sorry if you think that am habitually and mindlessly copying my colleagues’ answers. Wishing you a relaxed and successful week!
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agree |
writeaway
: The neutral-now-turned-disagree is unwarranted and unfair. The is a clearer wording and your explanation in German is very helpful.
6 hrs
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Thank you :-)
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: saying "subject to errors" implies that there ARE errors and I don't see how it can mean this, but the tone of the CP disagree is entirely unwarranted
20 hrs
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agree that the sentence should be split to be make sense - that's why I added my explanations -
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agree |
TonyTK
1 day 2 hrs
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Thanks, Tony!
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neutral |
philgoddard
: I agree with Allegro. Also, this is grammatically incorrect - it should be "and to prior". Otherwise you're saying "subject to errors of the property".
1 day 12 hrs
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[See my suggestion]
Errors and omissions excepted [this is a standard term meaning that the contract will not become invalid if it contains mistakes]. Contract may be invalidated if the property has been sold or rented to a third party.
neutral |
Chris Pr
: A dictionary definition is not being sought here... // Also, but unrelated to you, Phil, these serial partisan interventions by your Francophone (only, so it seems) colleague are becoming all too transparent...
10 mins
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Who said anything about a dictionary definition? This is my suggested translation. The bit in square brackets is my explanation of "errors and omissions excepted", in case Luiza isn't familiar with it.
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neutral |
writeaway
: this is more of a reference comment, not really an answer. And you've included a lot of elements nowhere in the phrase actually asked
3 hrs
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It's an answer. It's longer than the German because literal translations don't work.
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agree |
AllegroTrans
: This was my first thought when I saw the ST - we need to use sensible English rather than Engleutsch
18 hrs
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Thank you.
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neutral |
Björn Vrooman
: Agree you should spell it out, but your explanation makes no sense to me (we've had a Maklervertrag before). E.g., Irrtum vorbehalten doesn't apply to the whole contract (that'd be illegal) but to an agent's non-binding offers (->invitatio ad offerendum).
3 days 17 hrs
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error, prior sale and leasing/letting (are) reserved/subject to change
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Note added at 23 mins (2020-07-05 12:09:02 GMT)
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e.g.: Zwischenverkauf bzw. Vermietung und Verpachtung bleiben dem Verkäufer ausdrücklich vorbehalten, es sei denn, dass hierfür eine gesonderte Vereinbarung getroffen wird. ziegert-immobilien.de
They shall expressly be subject to prior sale, letting or leasing by the Seller unless otherwise specified by a separate agreement.
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Note added at 26 mins (2020-07-05 12:12:27 GMT)
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Hi Luiza and welcome to proz :) normally you have to restrict question content but no worries
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Note added at 29 mins (2020-07-05 12:14:35 GMT)
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and another example: Alle Angebote in der Datenbank sind freibleibend und vorbehaltlich Zwischenverkauf und -vermietung. concept02.at
All offers in the database are subject to change and to prior sale and leasing.
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Note added at 31 mins (2020-07-05 12:17:06 GMT)
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might need a little polishing in your specific context but that's up to you :)
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Note added at 1 hr (2020-07-05 12:48:00 GMT)
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glad to have helped and enjoy this great site :)
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Note added at 5 hrs (2020-07-05 16:48:51 GMT)
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the "great debate" is typical on the German front so you decide based on your own knowledge
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Note added at 5 hrs (2020-07-05 16:50:21 GMT)
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we help with ideas but you have the final call
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Note added at 5 hrs (2020-07-05 16:51:51 GMT)
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and you'll see the form as you go along :)
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Note added at 2 days 21 hrs (2020-07-08 08:46:10 GMT)
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see what I mean :)
Sorry, I just got my paid membership and am still learning all the ropes. That is similar to what I was thinking and was stuck on how to phrase it. Thank you. |
agree |
Teangacha (X)
: 'The right is reserved to error, prior sale and prior/interim leasing.' 'Error, prior sale and prior/interim leasing excepted.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errors_and_omissions_excepted
9 mins
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thanks Irene and wholly approve of your pro-bono work :) the gift of tongues sounds great :) Go raibh maith agat: Go n-eirí an t-ádh leat very basic Irish :)
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neutral |
philgoddard
: I don't think this makes syntactic sense. You can't say "error is reserved" or "error is subject to change". The first is simply not something we'd say, and the second implies that the contract contains an error.
7 hrs
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don't forget the force of the comma, feel the context
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: You can't say "error is reserved" or "error is subject to change" - this just doesn't make sense in English
1 day 1 hr
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the comma does its job Chris :) think about it and with the comma ok
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We accept no liability for errors in the description and reserve the right to sell or let...
Agree with Phil Goddard (“I think the translation may need to be written out in more detail, and be longer than the German.”)
‘Irrtum’ has to be separated off from the other two elements here. No agent sets out to include errors or reserves the right to do so. It is, however, perfectly legitimate to sell or let the property to the first buyer to complete purchase.
In legal texts, accuracy outweighs brevity.
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Note added at 10 days (2020-07-16 11:33:40 GMT)
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neutral |
philgoddard
: Luiza says this is a contract, not a description.
12 hrs
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Thank you for sharing your misgivings.
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agree |
AllegroTrans
: Sensible
18 hrs
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Discussion
As "Vermietung" sounds strange after "Zwischenverkauf" for Germans like me, especially, as this term is not attached by "und" or "oder", I also suppose that a correctly formulated German clause would be "Irrtum und Zwischenverkauf oder -vermietung bleiben vorbehalten".
Is this a contact translated from another language? In such cases you should refer to the genuine source text if available from the client.
Otherwise, a similar UK scenario would refer to a mistake of fact (usually of property measurements) vs. of the law and a prior, unregistered sale (common in Spain for tax reasons) or letting (there is a third-party in occupation).
Meantime: https://eng.proz.com/kudoz/german-to-english/business-commer...
Besides, the source here appear to be an over-abbreviated version of:
"Irrtum und Zwischenverkauf oder Zwischenvermietung bleiben vorbehalten."
https://upmarketproperties.de/agbs/
Hence my query to Luiza about a possible typo...or maybe even omission?
"Offers are made subject to error, prior sale, price change or omissions."
Or perhaps missing a "bzw" between the two terms...?