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Berufslose

English translation: not in paid/gainful employment

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:berufslos
English translation:not in paid/gainful employment
Entered by: Mary Worby

10:56 Sep 12, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Marketing - Marketing / Market Research / market research
German term or phrase: Berufslose
This is an 'employment' category in a breakdown of details of people responding to a market research survey.

My instint was to call them 'unemployed', but they make up 40 % of what is supposed to be a representative sample of the population. So I guess we're talking the unemployed, housewives, pensioners, etc. Essentially people who don't, won't or can't work!

Do we have a nice neat little term for these people in English. Space is an issue.

As ever, many thanks for your help.

Mary
Mary Worby
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:41
persons not gainfully employed
Explanation:
I wonder whether "persons not gainfully employed" would fit.

My Siemens, Dico of Personnel and Educational Terms offers "without a trade" for berufslos, which certainly conveys only part of the picture.

Apparently, Berufslosigkeit is divided into the following categories (in Austria anyway):
5. Einteilung der Bevölkerung:
Die Bevölkerung wird nach dem überwiegenden Lebensunterhalt eingeteilt in Berufstätige
(Beschäftigte - Arbeitslose), Berufslose Einkommensempfänger (Pensionisten, Rentner,
son-stige berufslose Einkommensempfänger, unbekannt) und Erhaltene Personen
(Hausfrauen/-männer ohne eigenes Einkommen - Kinder, Schüler, Studenten ohne eigenes Einkommen - sonstige erhaltenen Personen). Karenzurlauberinnen, Präsenz-und Zivildiener zählen zu den
Beschäftigten. Die Erwerbsquote stellt den Anteil der Berufstätigen an der Bevölkerung dar.

In "German" German, these people would be called Erwerbslose, i.e. the opposite of Erwerbstätige = gainfully employed.

Granted, if space is an issue, this might be too wordy.
Selected response from:

Beate Lutzebaeck
New Zealand
Local time: 22:41
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I'm going for Darien's answer because this was what set me off on the right track to come up with my solution 'not in paid employment'. Whilst 'paid' and 'gainful' are technically the same in meaning, I feel that, for whatever reason, 'paid' doesn't have the same undertones of 'worthwhile' as 'gainful'. I had considered the non-professional / unskilled option as well. But I already have 'Arbeiter' as a category and I couldn't imagine 'unskilled workers' making up 40 percent of the population, especially as it would have left me with no category for all those housewives, pensioners, students, etc. Thanks again to everyone who contributed
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +4without occupation
Steffen Walter
5 +2Nonemployed
lone (X)
4 +1yes, I think your note is a good suggestion
Louise Mawbey
5How about
sylvie malich (X)
3 +1persons not gainfully employed
Beate Lutzebaeck
4unskilled
Wolf Brosius (X)
3non-working persons
Susan Starling
2 +1unemployed and inactive
Sheila Hardie
3non-professional
jerrie


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
without occupation


Explanation:
I would say (if space permits)

If we're talking about the share of this category in total population, this must also include students, minors etc. (provided the survey starts with 14-year-olds or the like). "Unemployed" would indeed be more restrictive compared to your indication.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 11:52:33 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, Mary, \"not in paid employment\" would do the trick perfectly, without conjuring up negative sidelines of any sort.

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 12:41
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 246

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Louise Mawbey: This has no negative overtones
13 mins
  -> Thanks, also agree with you on Mary's afterthought alternative :-)
agree  Endre Both
25 mins
  -> Danke Endre :-)
agree  Frank Bremster
45 mins
  -> Vielen Dank ;-)
agree  Susan Geiblinger
3 hrs
  -> thks
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
non-working persons


Explanation:
... is what first comes to mind. Maybe someone else has something better?

Susan Starling
Local time: 12:41
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
unemployed and inactive


Explanation:
Just an idea - jobless could also be used instead of unemployed perhaps?

HTH

Sheila


National Statistics Office - MALTA - [Traduzca esta página ]
... unemployed and inactive (which includes housewives, pensioners and ... Unemployment rates
– This represents the unemployed ... included the number of people ...
www.nso.gov.mt/cosnews/news01/news2201.htm - 101k - En caché - Páginas similares

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 11:18:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

inactive population


Labour force survey results - [Traduzca esta página ]
... Inactive population - survey age and older who are not assigned to any group of ... This
group embraces school children, students, housewives, pensioners ...
www.std.lt/STATISTIKA/Socialine/uzimtumas/ gyv_uzimt_01lapkr_e.htm - 32k - En caché - Páginas similares

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 11:19:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

STATISTICS SINGAPORE - KeyStats - Glossary - Census 2000 Concepts ... - [Traduzca esta página ]
... inactive persons refer to persons who were not working and not looking for work
during the reference period. They include housewives, students, pensioners, ...
www.singstat.gov.sg/keystats/glossary/cglossary.html - 41k - En caché - Páginas similares

Policy and Research - [Traduzca esta página ]
... one non - pensioner), One non -pensioner adult only, Two or more pensioners ... Economically
inactive refers to the long term sick and disabled, housewives ...
www.newcastle.gov.uk/pr.nsf/a/DeneWardProfile - 60k - 10 Sep 2002 - En caché - Páginas similares

Structural adjustment and agriculture in Guyana: From crisis to ... - [Traduzca esta página ]
... labour force was estimated at 467,173 (last row of table 7), but 40 per cent were
in the inactive category, being housewives, students and pensioners, leaving ...
www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/ sector/papers/agrguyan/143e4.htm - 83k - 10 Sep 2002 - En caché - Páginas similares

www.astoncharities.org.uk/research/newham/whamsum.txt - [Traduzca esta página ]
... Among inactive women two fifths are retired, under one ... terms of ethnic group, housing,
household type (pensioners ... most time at home (eg the retired, housewives ...
41k - En caché - Páginas similares

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 12:32:10 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I agree that \'not in paid employment\' sound good - no negative connotations.

Sheila Hardie
Spain
Local time: 12:41
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Louise Mawbey: I also think this has a negative touch - you can be very active when retired or unemployed. The problem is I can't think of an appropriate term
8 mins
  -> I fully agree it sounds negative, but it does seem to be used a lot in official contexts:-)
agree  Jutta Amri: I think Erwerbslose, are people who just don't have a job, but an education. Berufslos means "ohne Beruf",that means without profession or without education.But 40% ??? without profession?
3 hrs
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21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
persons not gainfully employed


Explanation:
I wonder whether "persons not gainfully employed" would fit.

My Siemens, Dico of Personnel and Educational Terms offers "without a trade" for berufslos, which certainly conveys only part of the picture.

Apparently, Berufslosigkeit is divided into the following categories (in Austria anyway):
5. Einteilung der Bevölkerung:
Die Bevölkerung wird nach dem überwiegenden Lebensunterhalt eingeteilt in Berufstätige
(Beschäftigte - Arbeitslose), Berufslose Einkommensempfänger (Pensionisten, Rentner,
son-stige berufslose Einkommensempfänger, unbekannt) und Erhaltene Personen
(Hausfrauen/-männer ohne eigenes Einkommen - Kinder, Schüler, Studenten ohne eigenes Einkommen - sonstige erhaltenen Personen). Karenzurlauberinnen, Präsenz-und Zivildiener zählen zu den
Beschäftigten. Die Erwerbsquote stellt den Anteil der Berufstätigen an der Bevölkerung dar.

In "German" German, these people would be called Erwerbslose, i.e. the opposite of Erwerbstätige = gainfully employed.

Granted, if space is an issue, this might be too wordy.


    Reference: http://www.rauris.net/gemeinde/strukturdaten/strukturprofile...
Beate Lutzebaeck
New Zealand
Local time: 22:41
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I'm going for Darien's answer because this was what set me off on the right track to come up with my solution 'not in paid employment'. Whilst 'paid' and 'gainful' are technically the same in meaning, I feel that, for whatever reason, 'paid' doesn't have the same undertones of 'worthwhile' as 'gainful'. I had considered the non-professional / unskilled option as well. But I already have 'Arbeiter' as a category and I couldn't imagine 'unskilled workers' making up 40 percent of the population, especially as it would have left me with no category for all those housewives, pensioners, students, etc. Thanks again to everyone who contributed

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Louise Mawbey: I think a lot of housewives would object to being categorised as not gainfully employed - it would negate the work they do
4 mins
  -> Well, I guess this is more a question of political correctness than linguistics. gainfully employed = erwerbstätig - housewives (or homemakers ... ;-)) are not considered erwerbstätig in Germany either, a bone of contention.
agree  Lydia Molea
10 mins
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40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Nonemployed


Explanation:
Short and often used in surveys.

Good luck.


    Reference: http://www.nwaf.org/pubs/pubs_articles03.htm
lone (X)
Canada
Local time: 06:41
Native speaker of: Danish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Susan Starling
9 mins
  -> Thank you!
agree  Armorel Young
1 hr
  -> Thanks!
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46 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
yes, I think your note is a good suggestion


Explanation:
very neutral and should cover everything

Louise Mawbey
Germany
Local time: 12:41
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nadders: I think your own suggestion is best, too!
5 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
How about


Explanation:
(C:

actually just kidding!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 12:21:19 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

*between jobs*
_____________

(should be above instead of the \\ , don\'t know how that happened ...)

sylvie malich (X)
Germany
Local time: 12:41
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
non-professional


Explanation:
professional / non-professional
skilled / unskilled

Just a thought...bearing in mind the high percentage.

jerrie
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:41
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
unskilled


Explanation:
Beruf refers normally to a trade or an occupation that requires training and an examination after a prescribed syllabus has been completed.Berufslose are persons that do not have formal skills.

Wolf Brosius (X)
Local time: 12:41
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
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