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Zielgrößen

English translation: parameters

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Zielgrößen
English translation:parameters
Entered by: PoveyTrans (X)

23:14 Jan 4, 2007
German to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Manufacturing / Consultancy
German term or phrase: Zielgrößen
This is a heading in a corporate presentation for a motor manufacturer

Bei der Planung von Transportsystemen muß jedoch eine Vielzahl von weiteren Zielgrößen beachtet werden
PoveyTrans (X)
Local time: 14:19
parameters
Explanation:
This is actually David's suggestion, but since he now seems to be wavering on the fence about whether to include target, I thought I’d make a separate entry.

The translation that immediately popped into my head in this particular case was parameters (without the target). In my opinion, target parameters is a tautology here. The "nitty gritty" (to use David's expression ;-)) of the text is:

"When planning transport systems, however, a number of other parameters have to be observed."

By adding the word "target" we do more than just muddle this statement, we actually weaken it. If parameters have to be observed, then anything outside the parameters is unacceptable.

Period.

Put in the word "target" and you open the door to quite another interpretation. Workers should aim for the target parameters, but if they miss it, well, better luck next time.

My German wife's reaction to the myriad of KudoZ target answers here was, and I quote: "Blödsinn - es geht nicht um irgend ein Ziel, es geht um Grenzen."

I couldn’t agree more.

There is a tendency in German to go over the top. The Germans call it "doppelgemoppelt." They talk about “eingeladene Gäste” when we would just call them “guests”. Expressions come to mind like "Grund und Boden" and "hegen und pflegen"… the list is endless. It's part of their linguistic wiring, so to speak.

They also create quite a number of words with "Ziel". For example, "Zielvorgabe". We often translate the word "Vorgabe" as "objective". So would we translate "Zielvorgabe" as "target objective"? No, that's a tautology.

Our job as translators is to get the message across, not translate every nuance that appears to bubble up to the surface in the German. We should write clear and readily understandable English that reflects the intentions of the author. That’s what they pay us to do.

Think about what the author is trying to say and decide whether or not “target” really helps convey that idea. My advice: keep it simple.
Selected response from:

Paul Cohen
Greenland
Local time: 12:19
Grading comment
Thanks - this was difficult but parameters just read very well.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3target parameters
David Hollywood
4 +2parameters
Paul Cohen
4targeted (system) volumes
erika rubinstein
3target amount
Kim Metzger


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Zielgröße
targeted (system) volumes


Explanation:
---

erika rubinstein
Local time: 15:19
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Zielgröße
target amount


Explanation:
Im Strategy and Business Mangement Loop
muss die Strategie verbal beschrieben und in
Ziele, Messgrößen und quantitative Zielgrößen
umgesetzt werden.

www.sap.info/.../0/articleContainer-67373ec647a8d62ec/deliv...

The strategy and business management loop
describes the strategy in clear terms and
converts it to specific objectives, measures,
and quantitative target amounts.

www.sap.info/.../0/articleContainer-62783ec62aa4d162f/deliv...


Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 07:19
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 183
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Zielgröße
target parameters


Explanation:
Improvement of logistical target parameters in aluminium semis plants. F HEROLD Aluminium(Düsseldorf) 73:1010, 690-693, Girsel, 1997. ...
cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2850351 - Similar pages

Intercomparison and validation of ILAS-II version 1.4 target ...Intercomparison and validation of ILAS-II version 1.4 target parameters with MIPAS-B measurements. G. Wetzel. Institut für Meteorologie und Klimaforschung, ...
www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2006/2005JD006287.shtml - 9k - Cached - Similar pages



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2007-01-04 23:28:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

zur diskreten oder kontinuierlichen Steuerung wenigstens einer Zielgröße, ... instructions for discrete or continuous control of one target parameter, ...
www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=1999/01807 - 40k - Cached - Similar pages

or maybe just "parameters"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2007-01-04 23:31:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

could also be "target values/figures"

Betrifft Zielgröße
Kontext/ Beispiele die entsprechende Zielgröße für die S/K-Quote nach Cashflow-Zinsen ist dann 96% [= 100% – 4%]
Kommentar target parameter??
Verfasser Mex 01 Apr 04 11:54


Kommentar ja, oder target value, target figure
1 Verfasser hein mück


David Hollywood
Local time: 10:19
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 68

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kim Metzger: This is probably the best choice in this context.
5 mins
  -> thanks Kim, I think it should include something with "target"
agree  DDM
20 mins
  -> thabks Daniel :)
neutral  Paul Cohen: You were on the right track when you said just call it parameters, David. I've decided to make a separate entry.
1 hr
  -> yes Paul, I agree with your comment but maybe there is justification for including the "target" here, I agree that it's tricky to get to the nitty gritty sometimes :)
agree  Rebecca Garber
15 hrs
  -> thanks Rebecca :)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
parameters


Explanation:
This is actually David's suggestion, but since he now seems to be wavering on the fence about whether to include target, I thought I’d make a separate entry.

The translation that immediately popped into my head in this particular case was parameters (without the target). In my opinion, target parameters is a tautology here. The "nitty gritty" (to use David's expression ;-)) of the text is:

"When planning transport systems, however, a number of other parameters have to be observed."

By adding the word "target" we do more than just muddle this statement, we actually weaken it. If parameters have to be observed, then anything outside the parameters is unacceptable.

Period.

Put in the word "target" and you open the door to quite another interpretation. Workers should aim for the target parameters, but if they miss it, well, better luck next time.

My German wife's reaction to the myriad of KudoZ target answers here was, and I quote: "Blödsinn - es geht nicht um irgend ein Ziel, es geht um Grenzen."

I couldn’t agree more.

There is a tendency in German to go over the top. The Germans call it "doppelgemoppelt." They talk about “eingeladene Gäste” when we would just call them “guests”. Expressions come to mind like "Grund und Boden" and "hegen und pflegen"… the list is endless. It's part of their linguistic wiring, so to speak.

They also create quite a number of words with "Ziel". For example, "Zielvorgabe". We often translate the word "Vorgabe" as "objective". So would we translate "Zielvorgabe" as "target objective"? No, that's a tautology.

Our job as translators is to get the message across, not translate every nuance that appears to bubble up to the surface in the German. We should write clear and readily understandable English that reflects the intentions of the author. That’s what they pay us to do.

Think about what the author is trying to say and decide whether or not “target” really helps convey that idea. My advice: keep it simple.


Paul Cohen
Greenland
Local time: 12:19
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
Thanks - this was difficult but parameters just read very well.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Darin Fitzpatrick: Your advice is on target, but we English speakers have our share of "stuff and nonsense," I say. How about "transport conveyor"? :-)
8 hrs
  -> Ouch, that is an odd one. Thanks, Darin. Yes, we have our own share of nonsense in English.
agree  David Hollywood: I'm certainly wavering on the fence as these terms are tricky ... my instinctive reaction/gut feeling is "parameters" but so hard to tell :)
10 hrs
  -> Thanks. Sometimes you have to go with your gut reaction, David. It's that instinct that you received in your mother's milk! Believe me, nobody is going to miss the word 'target' here. ;-)
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