hätten sich zusammengeschlossen

English translation: joined together in an international . . .

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:hätten sich zusammengeschlossen
English translation:joined together in an international . . .
Entered by: Kim Metzger

02:07 Jun 10, 2004
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Linguistics / support for the arts and culture
German term or phrase: hätten sich zusammengeschlossen
I normally don't do criminal law translations so I'm struggling a bit with how to handle the subjunctive in reported speech.

Die Staatsanwaltschaft legt aufgrund ihrer Ermittlungen den Angeschuldigten folgenden Sachverhalt zur Last:
Herr X und Frau Y - zur Zeit der Taten 19 und 20 Jahre alt hätten sich zumindest von Sommer 2002 ... zu einer international operierenden Rauschgiftorganisation zusammengeschlossen.

Here's what I've got so far:
On the basis of its investigation, the public prosecutor's office charges the defendants with having committed the following acts:
Mr. X and Ms. Y ...
Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 23:12
joined together in an international . . .
Explanation:
You have already taken care of the subjunctive by stating that the police are charging these people with the follow acts (same as "as follows").
So now you can use the ordinary mood.
Selected response from:

Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 23:12
Grading comment
Thank you all very much for lots of good ideas and specifically for setting me straight on how to deal with the subjunctive.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2Mr X and Ms Y, aged 19 and 20 years old at the time of these acts did, from the summer of 2002,
Rowan Morrell
4 +2FYI
CMJ_Trans (X)
4 +1were part of an international drug organization
Michael Spaventa
5...charged with (accused of) having jointly engaged in international drug trafficking
Ingrid Blank
4 +1are accused of having jointly set up/formed
Dr. Kathleen Cross
4joined together in an international . . .
Dr. Fred Thomson


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
hätten sich zusammengeschlossen
joined together in an international . . .


Explanation:
You have already taken care of the subjunctive by stating that the police are charging these people with the follow acts (same as "as follows").
So now you can use the ordinary mood.

Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 23:12
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thank you all very much for lots of good ideas and specifically for setting me straight on how to deal with the subjunctive.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
hätten sich zusammengeschlossen
Mr X and Ms Y, aged 19 and 20 years old at the time of these acts did, from the summer of 2002,


Explanation:
... collaborate in an international toxic poisoning ring/organisation.

The subjunctive in reported speech can simply be treated as a regular present or past tense, depending on the context.

Using "did" (i.e. the defendant did commit this alleged act, rather than the defendant has committed this alleged act) is a good idea. I remember getting drafted for jury service a couple of years ago, and when they read the charges, it was always "You did commit" etc.

Rowan Morrell
New Zealand
Local time: 17:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Gareth McMillan: Agree, and perfect UK courtroom English in it's style. I wouldn't know how it's voice in US- might even be future (de Lorean, etc.) heh, heh. ADD: Just change it to "non-toxic poisoning"?
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Gareth, although I messed up a bit with Rauschgiftorganisation (was concentrating more on the general style of the text).

agree  Monika Leit
13 hrs
  -> Thanks Monika.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
hätten sich zusammengeschlossen
were part of an international drug organization


Explanation:
keep it simple.

Michael Spaventa
Local time: 01:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  wrtransco
30 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
...charged with (accused of) having jointly engaged in international drug trafficking


Explanation:
another option

Ingrid Blank
PRO pts in category: 12
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
FYI


Explanation:
The point is that the subjunctive is used in German (and would also be in French) to show something hypothetical. It is a usage that does not exist in English.
These people stand accused but are presumed innocent until proved guilty.
The sentence means "it is claimed that they were members of from XX to YY...."


The defendants, aged... at the time, are purported to have....

CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 07:12
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lucyna Długołęcka
2 hrs

agree  Nancy Arrowsmith
11 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
hätten sich zusammengeschlossen
are accused of having jointly set up/formed


Explanation:
My solution would be to postpone the phrase 'zur Last legen' until the story begins, so that it is then possible to say: X and Y ... are accused of having jointly set up a drug trafficking organization... That still leaves you with an opening sentence of something like: on the basis of its investigations, the pub. pros. off. presents the following case... (or similar).

Dr. Kathleen Cross
Germany
Local time: 07:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christina Oltmann: Yes, "having jointly formed/set up" works.
6 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search