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French to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Textiles / Clothing / Fashion / Description of a pastel by Maurice-Quentin de la Tour
French term or phrase:déshabillé
Après avoir étudié en France dans les ateliers de Charles Le Brun et Louis de Boullogne, Louis de Silvestre (1675-1760) est nommé premier peintre du roi Auguste II de Saxe et s'installe alors en Saxe et en Pologne. En 1748, à soixante-quatorze ans, il rentre en France et prend, en 1752, la succession de Charles-Antoine Coypel comme directeur de l'Académie Royale de Peinture et de Sculpture. C'est à cette époque que son ami Maurice-Quentin de La Tour exécute son portrait exposé au Salon de 1753. Dans l'intimité de son atelier, le peintre porte une robe de chambre de satin bleu broché à ramages de fleurs et sur la tête un madras noué. C'était le **déshabillé** élégant des artistes de l'époque.
Explanation: Hello Posting this as it was in one of the references someone referred to but not suggested. This word fits the time and place historically and the asker says it looks right compared to the picture
Exactly - if the visitor doesn't know the word beforehand, they'll leave the exhibition with new vocabulary. I didn't know what a mahlstick was, but reading a painting description in front of a painting (I think it was a Vermeer), it became obvious. Indeed, I've now learned the word "banyan"!
After much cogitation, I chose "banyan" because, from the pictures obtained on googling, it corresponds exactly to the garment. I added "morning gown" in brackets. Thank you again everybody for your help with interesting contributions, each valid in its own way.
I decided to put Banyan up as it was in one of the references but not picked up on and I did read a fair bit through various references. Hope no one minds.
Ph_B (X)
France
claude-andrew,
09:26 Nov 18, 2019
Thanks. [EDIT: Marco mentioned it yesterday]. Re your second message, I agreed with Marco's answer yesterday and still do. I too got interested in banyan, but note that the online versions of Cambridge or Merriam-Webster don't mention it in that sense and Oxford says it's a "loose flannel undergarment worn in India". Not sure that describes robe de chambre, but I'll leave that to native speakers.
The text is from a museum laminated fact sheet that the visitor can borrow and replace afterwards. I think the text should be as understandable as possible to all English-speaking visitors, and I don't think over-translation is necessarily a bad thing if it is to explain the pastels. I'm inclined to use "banyan and madras - casual attire of the epoque". What do you think? NB The pastels are in the Musée Antoine Lécuyer in Saint-Quentin (02), and have just been re-hung. Do visit if you're in the area!
Thanks for banyan - I didn't know the word, but looking at the picture in wikipedia, it's exactly that.
Ph_B (X)
France
07:57 Nov 18, 2019
We’re told that the painter de Silvestre is wearing une robe de chambre… et sur la tête un madras noué. C'était le déshabillé élégant des artistes de l'époque, i.e. déshabillé refers both to robe de chambre and to madras, so not to just one article of clothing, but to de Silvestre’s general appearance as painted by de La Tour. We know that it’s elegant, so can presume much care went into it especially since de Silvestre knew he was having his portrait done.<p>Rather than describing this or that type of coat or hat, this déshabillé seems to describe the “state” of not wearing his outside clothes ([Se] déshabiller : retirer [à quelqu'un] son manteau ou un vêtement habituellement porté au dehors) and of being casually dressed not at home, but in his studio in this particular case, yet elegantly so in light of these unusual circumstances; you could almost say une manière d’être.<p> Also, the use of a past participle as a noun in this context reminds me of au débotté, which is not really about the boots themselves, but more precisely about when someone takes them off and what happens at that moment/in those circumstances.<p>
I like this word which came up in one of the references as I feel that you need a word used in that period and Banyan seems to fit the time and place. casual/careless attire etc. for me could be anything and has no historical import. It's like calling a musket a firearm
Well well, I didn't expect this amount of interest! Thank you to all contributors. In view of all the comments, I'm inclined to simply keep the French "déshabillé" as suggested by Yvonne and in her link.
No, not at all, it's in response to Asker's comment to an answer. All I'm saying is there's no obvious reason to assume that déshabillé here is not what it most often is, which is a type of gown. It doesn't translate easily (no equivalents in EN I know of), which I guess is why Asker posted the question!
is that remark aimed at me? I said nothing about "housecoat " being effeminate, just that it's a rather mundane word in my eyes (and doesn't conjure up blue satin). What I actually said "these days it (=déshabillé) is usually associated with women in a peignoir or negligée but it can just mean an undressed or carelessly-dressed look (i.e. not dressed in formal day clothes) and I see Marco is picking up on that idea. However "casual" doesn't conjure up a blue satin dressing gown for me either! And of course, it often takes a lot of time to achieve a "carelessly-dressed look" before posing! In fact I'd be more and more inclined to leave it in French. Here is a painting of a young man so dressed https://www.chairish.com/product/1468275/antique-18th-centur...
I'm not sure the supposed femininity or effeminacy of a housecoat is the point here—but if it were, of all people, surely artists would wear it for exactly that reason?
Also, the painting is of course posed; who knows how the artist and others actually wore their déshabillés, alone or in company, with or without underclothes.
Without knowing anything about what C17-18 artists wore at home or in studio or what was considered casual at the time for them or their ilk, I think the safest assumption is that a déshabillé is a light gown or coat worn at home.
Explanation: though I would seriously consider leaving the French word as well as déshabillé is used in English too. However, these days it usually associated with women in a peignoir or negligée but it can just mean an undressed or carelessly-dressed look (i.e. not dressed in formal day clothes)
but here we are actually told what he is wearing a blue satin dressing gown so rather than repeat dressing gown you could use déshabillé or night attire
Yvonne Gallagher Ireland Local time: 12:17 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 97
51 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +5
casual attire
Explanation: In the preceding sentence, the author states that, in his studio, the painter wore a "robe de chambre" and a "madras noué". He then goes on to say that this was the elegant "déshabillé" of the artists of the time. I think that this indicates a more general meaning of casual wear. The writer has already said that the artist was wearing a "robe de chambre"; there seems no need to repeat it just one sentence later.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2019-11-17 16:16:48 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Correct: there seems to be no need
Marco Solinas Local time: 05:17 Native speaker of: English, Italian PRO pts in category: 12
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, I like this, nice and neutral. I feel that "housecoat" is rather a feminine term.