de son seul fait

English translation: it is not ipso facto, but because

16:28 Dec 27, 2012
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Philosophy
French term or phrase: de son seul fait
From a philosophy paper on Plato's dialogues:

Si donc l’usage du paradigme permet d’aboutir à l’éveil de la connaissance, ce n’est pas *de son seul fait* mais parce qu’il rend possible la suite de la division et la poursuite de la recherche dialectique qui occupe le Politique.
tatyana000
Local time: 02:25
English translation:it is not ipso facto, but because
Explanation:
I know that Plato is a Greek philosopher, but the latin would sit well here with the kind of language used in academic writing about ancient philosophy.

note: ipso facto means literally "by its own fact", that's exactly the meaning here
Selected response from:

guillaumeratel
Local time: 18:25
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2it is not ipso facto, but because
guillaumeratel
3 +2by itself alone
Verginia Ophof
4it's not on its own, but because
jmleger
4by its own operation/application alone
Paul T.
3not that ( fact) alone/by that mere fact
Verginia Ophof
3it is not just the fact that
Jane F
3by its own action (or means)
John Holland
3in of itself / not merely (change syntax)
Wolf Draeger
3(not) solely per se
ormiston


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
it's not on its own, but because


Explanation:
so there!

jmleger
Local time: 19:25
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
not that ( fact) alone/by that mere fact


Explanation:
to the awakening of knowledge, it is not that ( fact) alone but because it enables....



Verginia Ophof
Belize
Local time: 18:25
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
it is not just the fact that


Explanation:
It is not just the fact that the paradigm is used which leads to an awakening of knowledge, but because .......

Jane F
France
Local time: 02:25
Native speaker of: English
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

47 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
by itself alone


Explanation:
another suggestion

Verginia Ophof
Belize
Local time: 18:25
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  cc in nyc: I think that's it
14 hrs
  -> thank you cc in nyc !!

agree  Daryo: it's not by itself alone, but because
19 hrs
  -> Thank you Daryo !!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
it is not ipso facto, but because


Explanation:
I know that Plato is a Greek philosopher, but the latin would sit well here with the kind of language used in academic writing about ancient philosophy.

note: ipso facto means literally "by its own fact", that's exactly the meaning here

guillaumeratel
Local time: 18:25
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: Good thinking!
32 mins

neutral  John Holland: I believe "ipso facto" is usually translated by "de ce fait même" and has a connotation of necessity that I'm not sure is desirable here. Please see https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/ipso_facto and http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/ipso facto
11 hrs
  -> from your first reference: "se dit de tout ce qui résulte nécessairement de quelque fait". I think that's exactly the meaning, the "fait" being the use of paradigm. The connotation of necessity you mention would be better translated by "ergo"

agree  Victoria Britten
14 hrs

neutral  Daryo: doesn't sound right - won't disagree because I couldn't be sure it's a plainly wrong use - it's borderline.
19 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
de son seul fait
by its own action (or means)


Explanation:
Another option...

As I read the sentence, the idea is that it's not the paradigm itself, or the use of the paradigm as such, that is important but rather the effects of its use. Along those lines, here's a possible rough translation of the sentence:

"If using the paradigm can result in an awakening of knowledge (connaissance), this is not *by its own action (or means)* but rather because it makes the continuation of division possible, as well as the pursuit of dialectical research that is taken up in the Statesman."

I'm not sure if that translation fits with the argument of the paper, so it's just another possibility.

Here are two examples in which "de son seul fait" seems to be used in a similar sense:

From http://www.legiculture.fr/Responsabilite-des-benevoles.html :
"En revanche, lorsque le dommage est causé par une faute résultant du comportement du bénévole qui est de son seul fait et qui ne peut être imputable à l'association, celle-ci peut demander au juge de l'exonérer de toute responsabilité."

From http://www.gayinlyon.com/actualite/les-homosexuels-vontils-p... :
"Si Marisol Touraine a en effet fait cette déclaration, il ne tient pas de son seul fait d'autoriser les homosexuels à donner leur sang. Ce n'est d'ailleurs pas la première fois que cette promesse est faite."


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2012-12-28 09:40:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Following up on my discussion with Guillaume, I think that it would be helpful to ask the author if there is a reason he or she chose to use "de son seul fait" rather than "de ce fait (même)" (i.e. "ipso facto").

There may or may not be a philosophical meaning implied that would be good to express, if possible, in the translation.



John Holland
France
Local time: 02:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  guillaumeratel: "by its own action" and the two examples above imply agency/responsibility, which, I think, cannot be ascribed to the use of a paradigm
11 hrs
  -> Thank you, guillaumeratel. Please also see my comment in the discussion section above.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
in of itself / not merely (change syntax)


Explanation:
I would suggest rearranging the sentence structure; the "si..." structure contrasting (but not opposing) two ideas in French is awkward to reproduce in English.

Example sentence(s):
  • The (use of the) paradigm, therefore, awakens knowledge not in of itself, but by enabling the division and pursuit of dialectic research concerning Politics.
  • Knowledge, therefore, is awakened not merely through the paradigm, but because the latter enables the division and pursuit of dialectic research concerning Politics.
Wolf Draeger
South Africa
Local time: 02:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
(not) solely per se


Explanation:
This might get the idea across

ormiston
Local time: 02:25
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

12 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
by its own operation/application alone


Explanation:
"fait" is the past participle of "faire", and cannot be simply equated with "fact".



Paul T.
Switzerland
Local time: 03:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search