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indépendamment

English translation: independently

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:indépendamment
English translation:independently
Entered by: Helen Genevier

11:04 Jan 27, 2009
French to English translations [PRO]
Science - Patents / chemistry/pharmaceutical patent
French term or phrase: indépendamment
"W représente –NR6–, –CR6R7–, un atome d’oxygène ou un atome de soufre ; R6 et R7 représentent indépendamment un atome d’hydrogène ou un radical alkyle"

Context: the patent starts with a diagram showing the general structure of the molecule discussed in the patent, and one of the positions shown in the chain is W.

I'd like advice on rendering "indépendamment". How about "R6 and R7, which are identical or different, represent..."?
Helen Genevier
France
Local time: 14:15
independently
Explanation:
This is a very common formulation in pharmaceutical patents. Here is an example of a patent orginally drafted in English (the French abstract is a translation):

where R5 and R6 are each independently H, C1-C4 alkyl, C1-C4 alkoxy, -(CH2)qOH, halo, trifluoromethyl, cyano, -(CH2)qNR7R8, -OCO(C1-C4 alkyl), -SO2NH2 or -CONR9R10;

ou Het où R5 et R6 sont chacun indépendamment H, C1-C4 alkyle, C1-C4 alkoxy, -(CH2)qOH, halo, trifluorométhyle, cyano, -(CH2)qNR7R8, -OCO(C1-C4 alkyle), -SO2NH2 ou -CONR9R10;
http://www.ipexl.com/patents/WIPO_1991ZZSLASHZZ010654.html

Here is another similar example also without the use of chacun/each:

http://www.surechem.org/index.php?Action=document&docId=9952...
Selected response from:

Alison MacG
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:15
Grading comment
Thanks very much!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5independently
Alison MacG
3 +1Either
thierry niderman
3respectively
Wendy Cummings
Summary of reference entries provided
Just a comment on not using 'radical'
Karen Tkaczyk

  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
respectively


Explanation:
Could it mean R6 and R7 represent, respectively, a hydrogen atom and an alkyl radical?

Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:15
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: That was my first thought too, Wendy; but in view of the way it is expressed rather oddly like that, I suspect the meaning is in fact the opposite.
1 min
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Either


Explanation:
Suggestion dans le contexte

thierry niderman
Local time: 14:15
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Andrew Mason: Frankly, I'd keep it simple. This is what it means.
4 hrs
  -> Thanks Andrew :-)
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30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
independently


Explanation:
This is a very common formulation in pharmaceutical patents. Here is an example of a patent orginally drafted in English (the French abstract is a translation):

where R5 and R6 are each independently H, C1-C4 alkyl, C1-C4 alkoxy, -(CH2)qOH, halo, trifluoromethyl, cyano, -(CH2)qNR7R8, -OCO(C1-C4 alkyl), -SO2NH2 or -CONR9R10;

ou Het où R5 et R6 sont chacun indépendamment H, C1-C4 alkyle, C1-C4 alkoxy, -(CH2)qOH, halo, trifluorométhyle, cyano, -(CH2)qNR7R8, -OCO(C1-C4 alkyle), -SO2NH2 ou -CONR9R10;
http://www.ipexl.com/patents/WIPO_1991ZZSLASHZZ010654.html

Here is another similar example also without the use of chacun/each:

http://www.surechem.org/index.php?Action=document&docId=9952...

Alison MacG
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:15
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Thanks very much!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Alison, and agreers!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: not my field, but this certainly makes sense linguistically and the refs are quite conclusive
19 mins
agree  Gustavo Silva
21 mins
agree  CFournier: I am used to translating patents from ENG>FR, so I am sure
3 hrs
agree  Karen Tkaczyk
3 hrs
agree  Joanne Nebbia: I have done quite a few patents and have always been told (by clients) to stick as close to the original text as possible, even at the expense of plain English!
3 hrs
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Reference comments


3 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Just a comment on not using 'radical'

Reference information:
Hi, I find that a lot of people don't know this, and since it is in your text, I thought I'd pass it along. Radical shouldn't be used like this in English or French. I use group, substituent and moiety for all these 'portions' of compounds.
From the link: "In the past, the term 'radical' was used to designate a substituent group bound to a molecular entity, as opposed to 'free radical', which nowadays is simply called radical. The bound entities may be called groups or substituents, but should no longer be called radicals."

Example sentence(s):
  • a hydrogen atom or an alkyl substituent

    Reference: http://goldbook.iupac.org/R05066.html
Karen Tkaczyk
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Note to reference poster
Asker: Very helpful, thanks Karen!


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Andrew Mason: But group is better than substituent.
35 mins
  -> Hello. I think it depends on the nature of the group sometimes. I often have 'groupe' and 'groupement' in a text in the same texts so I then use subsitutent for 'radical' to differentiate.
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