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French to English translations [PRO] Tech/Engineering - Construction / Civil Engineering
French term or phrase:Maître d'ouvrage vs Client
Hello,
I'm translating key stats about a project which involves delivering an in-building 3G/4G coverage solution to a private company. These stats include a list at the end of the piece with date works started, completed etc, and "Maître d'ouvrage: X" followed by "Client : X".
I would normally translate maître d'ouvrage as client or project owner. But here there is a "maître d'ouvrage" and a "client", so my question is what is the difference between the two? In this case, the "maître d'ouvrage" is designing and installing the solution (radio antennas, etc) and the "Client" will be taking ownership of the infrastructure on completion & using the service.
Apologies, I know the term maître d'ouvrage has come up a lot on Proz but from the way the maitre d'ouvrage is described in my context, it sounds like the maitre d'oeuvre.
I think the translator's client didn't make a "mistake" in naming the maître d'ouvrage "maître d'ouvrage".
Le maître d'ouvrage c'est celui qui est à l'origine du projet stricto sensu. Ce n'est pas par définition celui qui sera propriétaire des lieux à l'achèvement des travaux ("The "Client" will be taking ownership of the infrastructure").
"the "maître d'ouvrage" is designing and installing the solution (radio antennas, etc)" Are you sur they're doing it, and not using an "architecte" and other "entreprises" to deliver it. The maître d'ouvrage is still called "maître d'ouvrage" if it's a "constructeur non réalisateur" (eg a "promoteur")
I haven't assumed anything I don't think? I translated the term as "prime contractor" because I had to work out what they meant by maitre d'ouvrage using it alongside "client" & they couldn't clarify. Separately, I concluded the meaning was maitre d'oeuvre because of the context and previous knowledge of the company, but did not translate it as such in the text.
I completely agree with Tony on this. The asker says themselves that "the "maître d'ouvrage" is designing and installing the solution". That's what we ultimately have to translate and client, contractor or designer alone does not fully capture this double role. "Client" is clearly wrong therefore and causes a further predicament as the word "client" follows in the French text.
Have concluded that the client mixed up their terminology, but hasn't realised even though I've tried to point it out sensitively! I'm pretty sure that they mean maître d'oeuvre. Thanks for everyone's help!
But if "maitre d'ouvrage" is simply the client as you say, how do you explain that the in the ST, the word "client" follows. The only way this is possible is if X in the original question is the same "company" and the asker would have said if this was so. Contractor: Fred Blogs Client: Fred Blogs
are carelessly confusing "maître d'œuvre" (the one doing the work - the principal one) and "maître d'ouvrage" (the one paying for / ordering the work) does not change in the least the fact that each term has its own clearly defined meaning.
"I've asked the client for clarification but they haven't understood my question" explains it enough ...
Probably a lawyer who has this type of contracts only once in a blue moon.
Main/prime contractor would be a possibility only if there are other contractors involved too and who take instructions from the main contractor. Otherwise, depending on the works involved, you could try "design and installation contractor" or "design and build contractor".
Thanks very much all. @Cyril Tollari there is no mention of maître d'oeuvre anywhere in the text. @ B D Finch, I don't think the building firm owns the land, since the client is an existing private company that needs better access in its buildings to 3G and 4G. I've asked the client for clarification but they haven't understood my question, so I think I will go for prime contractor as suggested by Tony.
Could this be a contract where the building firm is the maître d'ouvrage, because it owns the land and ownership is only transferred to the client at handover of the completed works? Other than that possibility, I agree with the comments below: that it's a muddle.
If, as you say, "the "maître d'ouvrage" is designing and installing the solution (radio antennas, etc)", then it's not the client in your context and they are just using the wrong term, so suggestions that others have made would seem to fit
These words get confused so often that I doubt it is now possible to say for sure what they each mean We can see however that "Maître d'ouvrage"is often translated as client (Daryo's comment), project owner etc. But there are also multiple translations like "prime contractor" (Tony's point) or similar So if "Maître d'ouvrage" appears in opposition to client, I think it has to be "prime contractor" or similar
1) I find that the 2 terms a very often confused in FR documents 2) You might find that M.O. here is something like 'prime contractor', as distinct from 'end client' / 'commissioning body' etc.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
3 hrs confidence:
Maître d\'ouvrage vs Client
Onsite Project Developer/s vs. Client/s
Explanation: I'll leave others bravely to post - no split infinitive - prime contractor.
If there's any misnomer, it's the gender, namely both parties are likely to be feminine-gender authorities or corporates e.g. la Maîtresse d'ouvrage and la Cliente, so developers and clients in the plural, yawn......
Anecdotally: 'twas a bright and sunny day when I as a staff translator, all of 40 years ago at my ex-translation office in Central London, chanced upon maître d'ouvrage vs. maitre d'oeuvre conundrum in a FRE / ENG text. A native French colleague who had worked for a well-known engineering co. down in Surrey advised: 'unless the design engineer is semi-literate or has had a liquid lunch, the former means the site owner and the latter the consultants'.
BTW, I've had to switch off the peer comments read function as, last week, I received the same thank you - obrigado - peer comment from a Brazilian-Portuguese translator every 5 minutes for an hour, so 12 times.
Alas, no Scottish variety of this answer occurs to me.
Example sentence(s):
All such changes must be demonstrated as having been agreed with free, prior and informed consent.• The Project Developer must *hold uncontested land title* for the entire Project Boundary to complete Pro- ject Design Certification.
Naturally, the communication link between the onsite project manager and the offsite team is very critical. So you will want a team that has worked together before.
I've taken into account the views expressed and also the asker's comment, namely In this case, the "maître d'ouvrage" is designing and installing the solution (radio antennas, etc)
This seems like the right solution to me therefore and takes into account the dichotomy of designer v contractor
Explanation: With this being a major project, I would think this refers to the individual with the highest sign-off authority for the project, namely the Project Manager. It is the PM who takes ultimate responsibility for the project's success and proper completion.
Example sentence(s):
A project manager is a person who has the overall responsibility for the successful initiation, planning, design, execution, monitoring, controlling and closure of a project.
