La forme n'est chez lui jamais préalable.

English translation: form is never set in stone

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:La forme n'est chez lui jamais préalable.
English translation:form is never set in stone
Entered by: Philippa Smith

00:08 May 14, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
French term or phrase: La forme n'est chez lui jamais préalable.
This is an excerpt from a review of a film and its director.
GG2006
Local time: 13:13
form is never set in stone
Explanation:
Suggestion based on the reference I found about Gus Van Sant's films:

"Et même dans ses œuvres les plus radicales, la forme n'est chez lui jamais préalable : elle est indissociable du type de rencontres que chaque film met en ..."

So "Even in his most radical work, form is never set in stone."

As I read it, the writer is saying that Van Sant doesn't stick to one form when making his films, that his choice of form is a shifting thing which depends on the relationships he is exploring within the film.
Another option could be "predetermined" but I don't feel the "pre-" notion has to made explicit: if his choice is not set in stone, that implies that he has not decided beforehand what it will be then stuck to that decision...
Selected response from:

Philippa Smith
Local time: 18:13
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +9For him, form is never preset/a given/planned in advance/a prerequisite
Reuben Wright
5The form for him was never anticipated
ABDESSAMAD BINAOUI
4For him, form is never predefined.
Richard Faul
4Form is never a preset/requisite for him.
Saro Nova
3 +1form is never set in stone
Philippa Smith
4For him, no form is a starting point
Francois Boye
3Convention is never a priority for him.
Lisa Rosengard
3He doesn't adhere to (any form of) convention
SafeTex


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
The form for him was never anticipated


Explanation:
It serves the meaning

ABDESSAMAD BINAOUI
Morocco
Local time: 17:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ArabicArabic, Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: so the form came as a surprise? no, it doesn't serve the meaning imo.
10 hrs
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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +9
For him, form is never preset/a given/planned in advance/a prerequisite


Explanation:
The main idea is that "For him/it, form was never...X".
The beauty of this is you would analyze the grander context of what precedes and follows and substitute X with;
preset
a given
a prerequisite
his first concern

The last one is a little far from the source without more context, but you can get the idea.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2020-05-14 00:40:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"With him, form is never...X". Thiis structure also works.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2020-05-14 01:08:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

is never "pre-established". Many good options.

Reuben Wright
Canada
Local time: 13:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Joshua Parker: "prerequisite" gets my vote, but I agree it would be helpful to have more context! The present perfect could also work: "form has never been a prerequisite..."
51 mins
  -> Thank you!

agree  Barbara Cochran, MFA: I like " a given" or "planned in advance".
1 hr
  -> Thank you, I am partial to "a given".

agree  philgoddard
2 hrs
  -> Thank you

agree  Tony M: Or even, "he never starts off from the form", which may be more applicable in a film context
5 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  Helene Tammik
6 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  erwan-l
7 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  Marian Vieyra: For me, 'never a given' is preferable.
7 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  Saro Nova: I like "never a given" very much. See my note about syntax as well. If you combine the two, you have it, methinks!
9 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  Yolanda Broad
1 day 19 hrs
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
For him, form is never predefined.


Explanation:
I agree with Reuben's suggestions, with a preference for 'planned in advance', but I feel 'predefined' would be more succint.

Richard Faul
France
Local time: 18:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Form is never a preset/requisite for him.


Explanation:
Some of the other suggestions are good, however, for syntax it is best to put the object at the end of the sentence. Otherwise, it sounds colloquial, more like speaking. Just saying!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2020-05-14 09:54:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Never a given" - instead of preset, or (pre-)requisite works better.

Saro Nova
Canada
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
form is never set in stone


Explanation:
Suggestion based on the reference I found about Gus Van Sant's films:

"Et même dans ses œuvres les plus radicales, la forme n'est chez lui jamais préalable : elle est indissociable du type de rencontres que chaque film met en ..."

So "Even in his most radical work, form is never set in stone."

As I read it, the writer is saying that Van Sant doesn't stick to one form when making his films, that his choice of form is a shifting thing which depends on the relationships he is exploring within the film.
Another option could be "predetermined" but I don't feel the "pre-" notion has to made explicit: if his choice is not set in stone, that implies that he has not decided beforehand what it will be then stuck to that decision...

Philippa Smith
Local time: 18:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: like it. doesn't sound like translationese and really fits in well with the text at hand.
1 hr
  -> Thanks a lot!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
For him, no form is a starting point


Explanation:
my take

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2020-05-14 14:40:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Erratum: NO ESTABLISHED FORM instead of no form

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 13:13
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Reuben Wright: This syntax is unidiomatic. Your idea could work as; "Form has never been his starting point."
6 mins
  -> explanation: he started from cratch; he does not abide by a standard..//see above

neutral  Tony M: The trouble is, this doesn't mean the same as 'he doesn't have any form as his starting point', which I think is what you are trying to say; it makes it sound as if he goes out of his way to eschew any kind of form...
3 days 14 hrs
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Convention is never a priority for him.


Explanation:
'la forme' means 'shape' or 'form' but it can also translate as the 'convention' . I suggest 'convention' instead of 'form' in the sentence. 'Chez lui' may also mean 'at his home'.
Definitions for 'prealable' are 'preliminary' , 'prior' or 'pre-condition'. I chose priority as I think it looks better in the sentence.

Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:13
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Saro Nova: I like CONVENTION, and it may be more appropriate, depending on the greater context. Not sure if priority is best though! Maybe "pre-condition, or "not a give".
14 hrs

neutral  Tony M: On a film-making context, I don't think 'convention' works: I believe this is very literally about the 'form' the film takes
2 days 20 hrs
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3 days 15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
He doesn't adhere to (any form of) convention


Explanation:
Hello

yes, I've "borrowed" Lisa's "convention" (credit to her) and kept form in the process but this could be dropped
Also used a verb that we often use with "convention".


SafeTex
France
Local time: 18:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: I wouldn't take the interprettaion of 'forme' here in the direction of 'convention'; I believe in this context, 'form' opposes 'content': he doesn't start out with the 'shape' of the film in his mind, but captures the 'content' first and shapes it later.
26 mins
  -> That's an interesting view and you've got me doubting myself now
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