substitué à

English translation: substituted (derivative)

08:30 Jun 16, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Science - Chemistry; Chem Sci/Eng
French term or phrase: substitué à
I have a particularly poorly written technical standard document to translate. It is an appendix listing substances which can and cannot be used in cosmetic products. In the table, under the heading "désignation des substances", the following appears:

"L’aminobenzène et ses dérivés substitués à l’Azote ainsi que leurs sels"

"L’aminotoluènes (1) leurs dérivés substitués à l’Azote et leurs sels"

It is unclear to me whether these substance replaced or are replaced by nitrogen. The "leurs sels" presumably relates to aminobenzene/aminotoluene.

My best guess is "aminobenzene and its derivatives replaced with nitrogen, plus their salts" but I am really not sure and would appreciate any input anyone else can offer!
George Young
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:48
English translation:substituted (derivative)
Explanation:
The full phrase here is "nitrogen-substituted derivatives"
See https://www.boundless.com/users/235424/textbooks/virtual-tex...
Selected response from:

dwt2
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:48
Grading comment
Many thanks for your time in responding.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3substituted at
Herbmione Granger
3 +1substituted (derivative)
dwt2


Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
substituted (derivative)


Explanation:
The full phrase here is "nitrogen-substituted derivatives"
See https://www.boundless.com/users/235424/textbooks/virtual-tex...

dwt2
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:48
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Many thanks for your time in responding.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: My grammar-based explanation was wrong, but I still agree with this suggestion. 8-)
1 hr
  -> Thank you
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
substituted at


Explanation:
'Aminobenzene and its derivatives, substituted at the nitrogen, as well as their salts.' More common is 'nitrogen-substituted' or 'N-substituted' derivatives. The N attached to the aryl group is kept in the aryl derivative. The other R groups attached to the N are substituted. The derivatives may be other amines, which are commonly isolated/stored/sold/used in ammonium salt form.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-06-16 11:26:00 GMT)
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At the N position, if you want to go further. The compound can be substituted at other positions.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-06-16 13:18:10 GMT)
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A fun read: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-38.8/page-13.html

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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2017-06-17 11:50:46 GMT) Post-grading
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In my explanation, 'the R groups attached...' is not very helpful or consistent. The N atom is 'substituted', meaning it acquires one or more 'substituents', meaning one or more H atoms attached to the N in the parent compound is replaced by a more interesting group in the derivative. Thus 'substituted at' simply means 'substituents placed at' and doesn't necessarily involve a substitution reaction. It is merely descriptive and unique to organic chemistry.

Herbmione Granger
Germany
Local time: 16:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Vissertrans: Good chemical explanation (grammar alone doesn't get you very far)
1 hr
  -> Thanks! Agree, grammar and chemistry are often at odds. No reason to avoid either :)

neutral  nweatherdon: " 'N-substituted' derivatives " seems more like the way to say it
2 hrs
  -> Agree for this context. 'Substituted at' is generalizable and avoids ambiguity.

agree  Karen Tkaczyk
7 hrs
  -> Thanks :)

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Yes, this is a clear explanation. Grammar is not sufficient here, indeed!
9 hrs
  -> Thank you! It could be clearer, I think. I am trying to convey that this phrase is useful for reading/writing about organic compounds.
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