This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
English language (monolingual) [PRO] Law/Patents - Law: Patents, Trademarks, Copyright
English term or phrase:hide design
I'm not sure of the meaning of 'hide design' in the following context.
[Official mark status is also available for heralds, flags, armorial bearings and designs. The Cree Nation of Chisasibi has, for example, protected its herald as an official mark, the Nisga’a Nation its flag, the Huron Wendat Nation its armorial bearings and the Peigan Band its hide design.]
Explanation: yes, at first I thought it was about painting on hides as well but after spending some time loking at various sites the same image keeps cropping up. It's clear that this flag, showing a buffalo, is their trade mark, as is clear from their own website:
This is natural as buffalo were such an important part of their lives.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 56 mins (2017-12-18 12:48:22 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Note that the bison or buffalo was the most widely used hide and it's also quite clear they painted a variety of symbols on the hide, birds, animals abstract designs etc. But this is about protecting a trademark so it has to be one logo or design rather than a random deign on hide like some of these: https://www.google.ie/search?q=peigan band hide design&rlz=1...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2017-12-18 13:08:27 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I should have pointed out the buffalo and feathers design being used as the logo/mark could also be painted on (buffalo) hide
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 9 days (2017-12-27 20:37:30 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
Glad to have helped. In relation to some comments, personally I would not use "shield", mainly because there are two types: a war/warrior shield and a medicine one and these could bear a wide variety of designs. https://study.com/academy/lesson/native-american-shields-his... Here the word "hide" is being used deliberately to refer to ONE particular design that has been chosen as the mark for the nation so there is NOT a variety of possible shield or hide designs as can be seen in my third link above, and here: https://www.google.ie/search?q=peigan nation war and medicin...
Anyway, introducing the word "shield" would be causing even more ambiguity as there are quite a few different meanings for the word (and kinds of shield for that matter). I considered using "design on hide" but it is clear that this particular design is widespread and used on lots of items related to the nation, including postcards, flags, and websites, as has been shown in the links. So, while the original design was almost certainly on hide, that is no longer necessarily the case. So I think it best to stick closely to doing a literal translation with a short explanation as necessary.
I hope the pre-Christmas season is shaping up well. Thanks for the link!
Doesn't this support what herbalchemist said below and what Charles reiterated, i.e., "hide" in the sense of "hide shield"? I can clearly see the feathers and a hide shield, including "buttons" on the shield, as shown at the link herbalchemist posted below.
The first link that you provided called it a "Hide and Feathers design," which would lead me down the same path.
As in your d-box link, "Design" is separate from the company name, which probably means the first part is a "keyword."
What's more, if we're talking about "car design" or "building design," isn't the first that thing that comes to mind a "car" or a "building"? Muddied waters here.
For the purposes of translation, I'd rather pick your first link in line with what was said during the discussion, i.e., you make it about the "hide (shield) and feathers"; otherwise, the translation may be just as confusing as the original.
Very interesting reference: the plot thickens. Maybe, then, "hide" here means "hide shield", not "buffalo/bison", "hide and feathers design" meaning a depiction of a hide shield with feathers rather than of a buffalo with feathers; in other words, although the hide shield depicted in this design does have a picture of a buffalo on it, "hide" does not actually mean "buffalo". Could be; "hide" as metonym for buffalo/bison is speculative and it's difficult to find supporting evidence for that usage, though in principle it seems possible.
...Charles had already mentioned in brief: Please do not use "trademark" when referring to the design. The asker had already posted a link where you can read the text in full.
Two other tidbits from the asker's text to help determine the meaning: 1) "[...] images which have cultural or traditional import but are not covered under copyright law may also be protectable as official marks"
2) "Official marks have some extraordinary advantages over regular trade marks or certification marks and also offer protection for traditional art and designs which may not be covered by copyright."
Here you see why this is important: "While continued use of a pre-existing trademark is exempt, official marks can seriously curtail the ability of a trademark owner to expand its use of a trademark, or register a trademark based on previous common law usage that has not yet been applied for." http://www.smart-biggar.ca/en/articles_detail.cfm?news_id=48...
The date of this document is 1999. The same passage is quoted in this 2006 University of British Columbia PhD dissertation on "Intellectual Property Rights, Legislated Protection, Sui Generis Models and Ethical Access in the Transformation of Indigenous Traditional Knowledge", by Greg Young-Ing (a member of the Opsakwayak Cree Nation in Northern Manitoba). Young-Ing indicates that it is quoted from an unpublished and undated work, Mark Eikland, Models for New Marks of Authenticity in Canada. https://open.library.ubc.ca/media/download/pdf/831/1.0103864... (p. 86; p. 93 of file)
The design is similar in form to a number of Native American dream catchers: a circle with feathers hanging from it. I think it's pretty clear that "hide", in this name, refers to the form of a buffalo inside the circle.
Here's the relevant passage in Alison's document. The inverted commas (quote marks) around the names suggest that these official marks are registered under those names:
'Some Aboriginal communities and organizations that have filed and advertised official marks under the Trade-marks Act include: the Osoyoos Indian Band Council for “Inkaneep”; the National Native Role Model Program; Kahnawake for a “Dream Catcher design”; the council of the Comox Band of Indians in B.C. for “Queneesh”; Campbell River Indian Band Development Corporation, also in B.C., for the “Discovery Harbour” mark and design; and the Peigan Band Administration of Alberta for a “Hide and Feathers design”.' http://publications.gc.ca/collections/Collection/R32-204-199...
As for the expression in the asker's text, it is in principle ambiguous. A "hide design" could mean a design drawn or painted on hides (skins) or it could mean a design depicting a hide. It could perfectly well mean the former in this context. The argument that it cannot mean this because designs on hide, as a generic phenomenon, cannot be protected, is obviously fallacious. The meaning would be their particular (unspecified) design, traditionally depicted on hides, in any medium. A country could in principle protect its "flag design"; everyone would understand that this means the design it uses on its flag (such as the stars and stripes), which would be protected as a mark wherever that design is used.
However, the official Canadian government paper Alison has cited seems to indicate that the Piikani's official mark (not trademark), registered under Section 9 of Canada's Trade-mark Act, is called the "Hide and Feathers design". To me this suggests that "hide design", in the asker's text, is an abbreviated form of this name, and refers to the particular design in question, shown in several references already posted, including herbalchemist's greetings card.
All these spellings are found. They are just different attempts at rendering the Algonquian name. Piikani, which may be the most phonetically accurate, is what they seem to call themselves now, at least in what is now Canada. Academic sources on Native Americans variously use others.
"The Blackfeet Indians of the United States are one of four closely related tribes of Plains Indians known generally by the name of Blackfeet. All of the tribes spoke the same Algonquian language. The Blackfeet in Montana, also known as the Southern Piegan or Pigunni, are the only group of Blackfeet Indians to have a reservation in the United States. The others, known as the Northern Piegan, the Bloods, and the Blackfeet proper, signed Treaty Number 7 with Canada in 1877; each was given a reserve in southern Alberta" Mary B. Davis, Native America in the Twentieth Century: An Encyclopedia, 284 https://books.google.es/books?id=onZ9AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT284
Carl Weisman, in his Encyclopedia of Native American Tribes, calls this subtribe of the Blackfeet "the Piegan (or Pigunni or Pikunni, meaning "poorly dressed")." https://books.google.es/books?id=WxomdGVLjZ0C&pg=PA37
Explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plains_hide_painting Plains hide painting is a traditional Plains Indian artistic practice of painting on either tanned or raw animal hides. Tipis, tipi liners, shields, parfleches, robes, clothing, drums, and winter counts could all be painted.
In your context, the design is representative of the Peigan Band.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 7 hrs (2017-12-18 19:01:16 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
It would make even more sense in the sentence if the design was on the tribe's shield or banner, in parallel with "flag" and "armorial bearings."
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 9 hrs (2017-12-18 20:52:08 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The meaning of this phrase is not completely clear, but I would still go with the immediate/obvious meaning of a drawing of some sort unique to this tribe. Also on the Wikipedia page, the first image is the tribe's representative flag/banner, and the caption is "Shield of the Piikani Nation" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piikani_Nation
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 9 hrs (2017-12-18 21:15:36 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
https://kolorkard.com/products/the-piikani-flag-greeting-car... The Piikani Flag by Native Artist Wesley Harry. The Piikani Flag is a representation of the Piikani Nation, a tribe that is part of the Blackfoot Confederacy. The colour red is representation of the Piikani People. The shield is representation of the protector. The centre buffalo is representation of Our Chief. The 12 feathers signify the 12 council members.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 10 hrs (2017-12-18 22:26:57 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
http://www.spiritalk.net/native-americans-medicine-shield.ht... Medicine shields were used by Native Americans men for spiritual as well as physical protection. Physical safety was aided by the size of the shield, and the material used to make it, which was a hard rawhide from the hump of the buffalo. The rawhide was cured, making it dense, so that no arrow could penetrate it. Bullets from early flint rock rifles didn't always go through the rawhide, although more powerful bullets did. For spiritual protection, the shields were circular, and decorated with power symbols and objects of personal significance.
Herbmione Granger Germany Local time: 06:10 Native speaker of: English
peer agreement (net): +3