'Crew Education and Training Centre' or 'Crews Education and Training Centre'

English translation: either can be used, according to circumstances (with caveat!)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:crew OR crews education and training centre
Selected answer:either can be used, according to circumstances (with caveat!)
Entered by: Tony M

08:06 Nov 4, 2013
English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Aerospace / Aviation / Space
English term or phrase: 'Crew Education and Training Centre' or 'Crews Education and Training Centre'
Which one is correct? And why? Thx in advance.
raikks
Romania
Local time: 18:51
either can be used, according to circumstances.
Explanation:
The normal rule in EN is that if a noun is used to qualify another noun, it remains in the singular; so here, 'crew' qualifies 'education and training', and so would NORMALLY be singular — and that would be a safe rule to follow in all cases.

HOWEVER, in this particular instance, it would not sound wrong to use 'crews' — in part, this is because 'crew' can have 2 different meanings here: crew as in 'the collective name for people who run an aircraft', but also 'crew' as in 'a specific team of people'. So by using the plural, you would be emphasizing that this is for training crews of people (not necessarily together, but with the idea of their ultimately coming together one day as a crew), rather than individual crew members.

But I must emphasize that this would only work in this particular instance because of the special nature of the word 'crew' (and of course there are some other words where this might apply as a special case too — but as a general rule, it would sound wrong and cannot be used just anywhere.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-05 06:16:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It's important not to be slavishly attached to the standard 'rule' here — there are just some words in EN where it can work like this (not many!)

We call parts for cars 'car parts' — it would sound quite unidiomatic to say 'cars parts'. But because 'crew' is a 'special case' word that is used in the singular and plural with different meanings, it is just coincidentally true that HERE it is actually possible. It's not a 'rule' — it's just a question of native-speaker 'feel'.

Think about this:
"A cruise ship has a very large crew"
"Some ships have several crews who alternate with each other."

Here, 'crew' is a noun meaning collectively 'the team of people who run the ship'.

But you can also have:
"Crew are not allowed to fraternize with the passengers"
Here, the apparently singular 'crew' is actually being used as a plural, to refer to 'members of the crew'.

Hence in the case of education and training, we can distinguish between (for example) 'crew training' (= training for individual crew members) and 'crews training' (= training for teams as a whole).
This may not be especially relevant, even in Asker's case — but I just wanted to point out that it is a possibility and shouldn't simply be dismissed out of hand.
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 17:51
Grading comment
Thanks, Tony!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
5 +2Crew education and training centre
crocox
4 +2either can be used, according to circumstances.
Tony M


  

Answers


11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
'crew education and training centre' or 'crews education and training centre'
Crew education and training centre


Explanation:
http://crewtrainingcenter.com/

'Group Administration Centre and Crew Training Centre - Nursling'
http://www.ctcaviation.com/about_us/locations

'Crew Training Centers
Every Carnival ship has a Crew Training Center, a state-of-the art learning facility, complete with student computers and over 1,200 learning resources including computer-based language resources, e-learning courses, books, language audio resources, computer courses and much more. Students may learn in the training centers or check out resources out and learn in the comfort of their cabins.

In tandem with the centers, every vessel has two qualified full time shipboard trainers who are responsible for the training and development of our team members and managing the Crew Training Centers. The on board trainers are certified to provide a wide range of useful courses, including new hire orientation, safety training, English for Speakers of Other Languages, management training and specialized departmental training.'
http://www.cclcareers.com/life-onboard/training-and-developm...

crocox
Romania
Native speaker of: Romanian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tina Vonhof (X)
11 hrs
  -> Thank you, Tina!

agree  Anna Herbst: Crew education and training - cf. nurse education, teacher education etc.
16 hrs
  -> Thank you, Anna!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
crew OR crews education and training centre
either can be used, according to circumstances.


Explanation:
The normal rule in EN is that if a noun is used to qualify another noun, it remains in the singular; so here, 'crew' qualifies 'education and training', and so would NORMALLY be singular — and that would be a safe rule to follow in all cases.

HOWEVER, in this particular instance, it would not sound wrong to use 'crews' — in part, this is because 'crew' can have 2 different meanings here: crew as in 'the collective name for people who run an aircraft', but also 'crew' as in 'a specific team of people'. So by using the plural, you would be emphasizing that this is for training crews of people (not necessarily together, but with the idea of their ultimately coming together one day as a crew), rather than individual crew members.

But I must emphasize that this would only work in this particular instance because of the special nature of the word 'crew' (and of course there are some other words where this might apply as a special case too — but as a general rule, it would sound wrong and cannot be used just anywhere.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-05 06:16:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It's important not to be slavishly attached to the standard 'rule' here — there are just some words in EN where it can work like this (not many!)

We call parts for cars 'car parts' — it would sound quite unidiomatic to say 'cars parts'. But because 'crew' is a 'special case' word that is used in the singular and plural with different meanings, it is just coincidentally true that HERE it is actually possible. It's not a 'rule' — it's just a question of native-speaker 'feel'.

Think about this:
"A cruise ship has a very large crew"
"Some ships have several crews who alternate with each other."

Here, 'crew' is a noun meaning collectively 'the team of people who run the ship'.

But you can also have:
"Crew are not allowed to fraternize with the passengers"
Here, the apparently singular 'crew' is actually being used as a plural, to refer to 'members of the crew'.

Hence in the case of education and training, we can distinguish between (for example) 'crew training' (= training for individual crew members) and 'crews training' (= training for teams as a whole).
This may not be especially relevant, even in Asker's case — but I just wanted to point out that it is a possibility and shouldn't simply be dismissed out of hand.

Tony M
France
Local time: 17:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thanks, Tony!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  crocox
1 hr
  -> Thanks; Crocox!

agree  Daniel Grigoras
1 hr
  -> Thanks, D.D.G.!

neutral  Tina Vonhof (X): I would still use the singular, even if it involves different teams.
11 hrs
  -> The singular can never be wrong, it's 'playing safe' — but there are certain instances where reverting to the plural can be seen to be a deliberate point of style.

neutral  Anna Herbst: "Crew education centre". If the plural form is used, you will need a possessive apostrophe after the plural "s" - "crews' education centre".
16 hrs
  -> No, Anne, there is nothing wrong with using the plural HERE (specifically) — 'an education centre for crews' (it's because we talk about crew as a non-collective noun as well as crews as a collective)
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