Insofar as it became so

Serbian translation: sve dok,utoliko sto, utoliko pre sto

14:10 Sep 7, 2017
English to Serbian translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History / uspinjanje društvenim lestvicama
English term or phrase: Insofar as it became so
The genuine big bourgeoisie, old or new, therefore had no great difficulty in organizing itself as an elite, since it could use methods very similar to those used by aristocracies, or even - as in Great Britain - the actual mechanisms of aristocracy. Indeed, where possible their aim increasingly was to crown business success by joining the class of the nobility, at least via their sons and daughters, and, if not at least by an aristocratic lifestyle. It is a mistake to see this simply as an abdication of bourgeois before old aristocratic values. For one thing, socialization through elite (or any) schools had been no more important for traditional aristocracies than for bourgeoisies. Insofar as it became so, as in British 'public schools', it assimilated aristocratic values to a moral system designed for a bourgeois society and for its public service. For another, the test of aristocratic values now increasingly became a profligate and expensive style of life which required above all money, never mind where it came from. Money therefore became its criterion. The genuinly traditional landed nobleman, insofar as he could not maintain such lifestyle and the activities associated with it, found himself exiled into a fading provincial world, loyal, proud but socially marginal, like the characters in Theodore Fontane's 'Der Stechlin' (1895) that powerful elegy on ancient Brandenburg junker values. The big bourgeoisie used the mechanism of aristocracy, as of any elite selection, for its own purposes.
Danica Cvetković
Serbia
Local time: 09:45
Serbian translation:sve dok,utoliko sto, utoliko pre sto
Explanation:
Iz jednog razloga, socijalizacija kroz elitne škole (ili bilo koje druge) bila je jednako važna za tradicionalnu aristokratiju kao i za buržoaziju. Sve dck se ovakva praksa širila [socijalizacija kroz elitne i druge škole –v.prethodna rečenica], kao na primer u britanskim “državnim školama”aristokratske vrednosti su asimilirane u moralni sistem sačinjen za (prema meri) buržoasko društvo i za njegove javne službe/ prema meri buržoaskog društva I njegovih jevnih službi.

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Marija Jankovic
France
Local time: 09:45
Grading comment
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Summary of answers provided
4tамо где је долазило до таквог развоја // у мери у којој су се ствари тако развиле
Daryo
3 -1postajalo do te mere
Vuka Mijuskovic
3 -1sve dok,utoliko sto, utoliko pre sto
Marija Jankovic


  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
insofar as it became so
postajalo do te mere


Explanation:
Pre svega, socijalizacija u elitnoj (ili bilo kojoj) školi bila je podjednako važna za buržoaziju koliko i za tradicionalnu aristokratiju. Do te mere da su britanske državne škole asimilovale aristokratske vrednosti moralnom sistemu...

Važnost je do te mere postala izjednačena

Vuka Mijuskovic
Serbia
Local time: 09:45
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: not quite
5 hrs
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22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
insofar as it became so
sve dok,utoliko sto, utoliko pre sto


Explanation:
Iz jednog razloga, socijalizacija kroz elitne škole (ili bilo koje druge) bila je jednako važna za tradicionalnu aristokratiju kao i za buržoaziju. Sve dck se ovakva praksa širila [socijalizacija kroz elitne i druge škole –v.prethodna rečenica], kao na primer u britanskim “državnim školama”aristokratske vrednosti su asimilirane u moralni sistem sačinjen za (prema meri) buržoasko društvo i za njegove javne službe/ prema meri buržoaskog društva I njegovih jevnih službi.

predlog


    Reference: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insofar%20a
Marija Jankovic
France
Local time: 09:45
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Darijev komentar je tačan. Hvala
Notes to answerer
Asker: Sve do..., utoliko pre što..., odgovaraju kontekstu. Hvala


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: however weird / illogical it many sound "public schools" in UK are in fact "приватне школе" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)
5 days
  -> Thank you Daryo. Your comment made me check it. You are absolutely right.
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7 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
insofar as it became so
tамо где је долазило до таквог развоја // у мери у којој су се ствари тако развиле


Explanation:
insofar as it became so = to the extent that "it" happened (in а particular country)

it = the fact that in Great Britain the big bourgeoisie joined the "elite creating mechanisms" already established by and used by the aristocracy, including access to "public schools"


The genuine big bourgeoisie, old or new, therefore had no great difficulty in organizing itself as an elite, since it could use methods very similar to those used by aristocracies, or even - as in Great Britain - the actual mechanisms of aristocracy.

Истинска висока буржуазија ... методе врло сличне онима које ... или је чак као на пример у Великој Британији користила механизме који припадају аристократији

Indeed, where possible their aim increasingly was to crown business success by joining the class of the nobility, at least via their sons and daughters, and, if not at least by an aristocratic lifestyle.

... циљ им је био да крунишу свој пословни успех тиме што се прикључе класи племства

[између осталог и дословном куповином племићких титула https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sale of peerages]

It is a mistake to see this simply as an abdication of bourgeois before old aristocratic values

било би погрешно то поједностављено протумачити као узмицање буржуаских вредности у односу на старе вредности аристократије

For one thing, socialization through elite (or any) schools had been no more important for traditional aristocracies than for bourgeoisies. Insofar as it became so, as in British 'public schools', it assimilated aristocratic values to a moral system designed for a bourgeois society and for its public service.

Као прво, .. социјализација кроз похађање елитних (или било којих) школа није била ништа више важна традиционалним аристократијама но буржуазијама. Тамо где је долазило до таквог развоја // у мери у којој су се ствари тако развиле, као што то је био случај у елитним приватним школама у Великој Британији, то је довило до утапања аристократских вредности у морални систем изграђен за потребе буржуаског друштва и његове државне службе.

For another, the test of aristocratic values now increasingly became a profligate and expensive style of life which required above all money, never mind where it came from. Money therefore became its criterion.


(in) so far as (or that)
phrase of far

1. to the extent that.
"the play was a great success so far as attendance was concerned"

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 24
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