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in point of possession

Italian translation: per quanto concerne (/per quanto riguarda/con riferimento/relativamente) al possesso(ecc.)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:in point of possession
Italian translation:per quanto concerne (/per quanto riguarda/con riferimento/relativamente) al possesso(ecc.)

08:05 Apr 30, 2014
    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2014-05-04 00:54:13 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)


English to Italian translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. / Indiani d'America-Cherokee vs. State of Georgia
English term or phrase: in point of possession
The court expressed the view that the Cherokee "occupy a territory to which we assert a title indepedent of their will, which must take effect in point of possession, when their right of posession ceases" (Cherokee nation vs. State of Georgia, 1831, 17).

Non riesco a trovare una traduzione ufficiale dell'intera frase. Qualsiasi link è ben accetto.
Title può essere tradotto come "diritto di proprietà?" e point of possession potrebbe essere tradotto "in materia di possesso"?
Grazie a tutti
Federica Carrus
Local time: 09:28
per quanto concerne (/per quanto riguarda/con riferimento/relativamente) al possesso(ecc.)
Explanation:
"[Le nazioni indiane americane] occupano un territorio su cui rivendichiamo un diritto che è indipendente dalla loro volontà e che diventerà effettivo, per quanto concerne il possesso, quando il loro stesso diritto di possesso cesserà."

Credo che il punto principale qui sia il fatto che si parla di "possesso" e non di "proprietà".

In un altro di quei casi simili al tuo, si trova: "The United States Supreme Court ruled in Johnson v. McIntosh that the two Indian nations held only a “right of occupancy,” and not legal title, when they sold the plots to the plaintiffs. Thus, they could not convey valid title to the plaintiffs under United States law. Furthermore, the United States, as successor to Great Britain, had sole authority to extinguish the two Indian nations’ “right of occupancy” by purchase or conquest. The rule then is that all American Indian nations have a claim, deemed a “right of occupancy,” to their traditional lands and territory, “but their rights to complete sovereignty, as independent nations, were necessarily diminished, and their power to dispose of the soil at their own will, to whomsoever they pleased, was denied by the original fundamental principle, that discovery gave exclusive title to those who made it.”13 The discovery doctrine, thus, gave the United States complete title to lands that formed its territory even while still in the possession of the Indian nations." ( http://bit.ly/1ku6kd2 )

Dove il concetto appare ancora più chiaro.
Selected response from:

Mirko Mainardi
Italy
Local time: 09:28
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1per quanto concerne (/per quanto riguarda/con riferimento/relativamente) al possesso(ecc.)
Mirko Mainardi
4in punto, quando uno si e' un proprietario legale
Ivan Petryshyn
3al momento di entrarne in possesso
VMeneghin


  

Answers


55 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
al momento di entrarne in possesso


Explanation:
io tradurrei cosi: "i Cherokee occupano un territorio sul quale noi esercitiamo dei diritti indipendentemnete dalla loro volonta', e che diventeranno effettivi al momento di entrarne in possesso (del territorio),quando il loro (dei Cherokee) diritto di possesso cessera'."

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-04-30 09:24:57 GMT)
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qui e' detto in termini molto eleganti, ma entrarne in possesso penso significhi la presa di possesso violenta, dove il diritto di proprieta' degli indiani va a farsi benedire ("cessera'") nel momento in cui noi occuperemo (in point of possession).

VMeneghin
Italy
Local time: 09:28
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 4
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
per quanto concerne (/per quanto riguarda/con riferimento/relativamente) al possesso(ecc.)


Explanation:
"[Le nazioni indiane americane] occupano un territorio su cui rivendichiamo un diritto che è indipendente dalla loro volontà e che diventerà effettivo, per quanto concerne il possesso, quando il loro stesso diritto di possesso cesserà."

Credo che il punto principale qui sia il fatto che si parla di "possesso" e non di "proprietà".

In un altro di quei casi simili al tuo, si trova: "The United States Supreme Court ruled in Johnson v. McIntosh that the two Indian nations held only a “right of occupancy,” and not legal title, when they sold the plots to the plaintiffs. Thus, they could not convey valid title to the plaintiffs under United States law. Furthermore, the United States, as successor to Great Britain, had sole authority to extinguish the two Indian nations’ “right of occupancy” by purchase or conquest. The rule then is that all American Indian nations have a claim, deemed a “right of occupancy,” to their traditional lands and territory, “but their rights to complete sovereignty, as independent nations, were necessarily diminished, and their power to dispose of the soil at their own will, to whomsoever they pleased, was denied by the original fundamental principle, that discovery gave exclusive title to those who made it.”13 The discovery doctrine, thus, gave the United States complete title to lands that formed its territory even while still in the possession of the Indian nations." ( http://bit.ly/1ku6kd2 )

Dove il concetto appare ancora più chiaro.

Example sentence(s):
  • in point of, as regards; in reference to: in point of fact.
  • with regard to : in the matter of <in point of law> <in point of fact>

    Reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/in+point+of
    Reference: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/point
Mirko Mainardi
Italy
Local time: 09:28
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 32
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  luskie
13 hrs
  -> Grazie luskie!
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10 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
in punto, quando uno si e' un proprietario legale


Explanation:
si tratta della legalita' del possesso, dunque, si deve aggiungere la parola "legale"

Example sentence(s):
  • in punto, quando uno si e' un proprietario legale, uno e' responsabile delle consequenze dell'uso della proprieta'.
Ivan Petryshyn
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in UkrainianUkrainian, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
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