when indirection fails.

Chinese translation: 當『迂曲』(的策略)無效時

03:00 Jul 28, 2006
English to Chinese translations [PRO]
Military / Defense
English term or phrase: when indirection fails.
we must generate overwhelming force to engage, shock
and destroy the enemy when indirection fails.
ace210
Chinese translation:當『迂曲』(的策略)無效時
Explanation:
『以迂為直』語出孫子兵法。另解釋孫子兵法的英文書常說,孫子兵法中三大戰略為﹕Deception, Indirection, Maneuver
孫 子 曰﹕ 凡 用 兵 之 法﹐ 將 受 命 于 君﹐ 合 軍 聚 眾﹐ 交 和 而 舍*﹐ 莫 難 于 軍 爭﹒

軍 爭 之 難 者﹐ 以 迂 為 直*﹐ 以 患 為 利*﹒ 故 迂 其 途﹐ 而 誘 之 以 利﹐ 后 人 發﹐ 先 人 至*﹐ 此 知 迂 直 之 計 者 也﹒


* 注 釋
1. 軍 爭﹕ 即 兩 軍 搶 先 爭 奪 制 胜 條 件﹒
2. 交 和 而 舍﹕ 和﹐ 指 和 門﹐ 即 軍 門﹔ 舍﹕ 駐 扎﹒ 意 為 兩 軍 對 壘﹒
3. 以 迂 為 直﹕ 變 迂 曲 為 近 直﹒
4. 以 患 為 利﹕ 化 患 害 為 有 利﹒
5. 后 人 發﹐ 先 人 至﹕ 比 敵 人 晚 出 發﹐ 先 到 達﹒

Selected response from:

pkchan
United States
Local time: 03:07
Grading comment
ok. thanks
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5当不可智取时
Ben Shang
4indirect attempts to bring about change
Roddy Stegemann
4当间接的尝试/方式失败后
Ray Luo
4當『迂曲』(的策略)無效時
pkchan
4当非直接的军事对垒失败后
Mark Xiang
3 +1FYI 'indirection' is a specialised use, refer to source text for definition.
chica nueva
3当远距离进攻失败后。
chineselaw
2当不能智取时,只好投入大兵力强攻来消灭敌人。
yuzouren


  

Answers


19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
when indirection fails
indirect attempts to bring about change


Explanation:
In this case of Iraq, for example, many diplomatic attempts were made to secure Saddam Hussein's abdication from power and his departure from Iraq. He refused to leave, and this, among others, was used as a justifiable reason to attack by the U.S. government. Only history will be able to judge whether this was a wise decision. Certainly recent history suggests that it was not.

Roddy Stegemann
United States
Local time: 00:07
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: thanks for your analysis

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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
当远距离进攻失败后。


Explanation:
indirection = the state of not direct, 即不是面对面的进攻, 不是近距离直接进攻,即不是肉博战也,也就是远距离进攻。

整句: 当远距离进攻不能解决问题时,我们得派大量的地面部队。。。跟敌人近距离较量: 如肉博,拼刺刀。

想当初,《军事天地》是我最喜欢的杂志。 理想与现实总是相差得如此之远。扯远了。


chineselaw
United States
Local time: 00:07
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese, Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: 谢谢,仁兄现在在美国,或许对美军的作战原则有些了解。 这段是对美军作战原则中“重心原则”(The principle of the center of gravity)的解释,indirection 应该包括远距离进攻,但直接译为远距离进攻不知是否恰当。原则或许用点抽象的、概括的词来表述。

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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
当间接的尝试/方式失败后


Explanation:
当间接的尝试/方式失败后

Ray Luo
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:07
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
PRO pts in category: 1
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
当不能智取时,只好投入大兵力强攻来消灭敌人。


Explanation:
可根据上下文调整,是重视智取还是要突出强攻。还是两者兼顾。
重要的是 《智取和强攻》的关系

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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-07-28 07:43:09 GMT)
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战争还没有结束不可轻易谈失败。更不能自己说自己失败了。那岂不是军心大乱。 fail 不是defeated。
只是没得手而已。换个战略,换个战术就可了。要有必胜信心。


yuzouren
Japan
Local time: 16:07
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
当不可智取时


Explanation:
we must generate overwhelming force to engage, shock
and destroy the enemy when indirection fails.
不可智取时,我们必须集中全力强攻.

Ben Shang
China
Local time: 00:07
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
當『迂曲』(的策略)無效時


Explanation:
『以迂為直』語出孫子兵法。另解釋孫子兵法的英文書常說,孫子兵法中三大戰略為﹕Deception, Indirection, Maneuver
孫 子 曰﹕ 凡 用 兵 之 法﹐ 將 受 命 于 君﹐ 合 軍 聚 眾﹐ 交 和 而 舍*﹐ 莫 難 于 軍 爭﹒

軍 爭 之 難 者﹐ 以 迂 為 直*﹐ 以 患 為 利*﹒ 故 迂 其 途﹐ 而 誘 之 以 利﹐ 后 人 發﹐ 先 人 至*﹐ 此 知 迂 直 之 計 者 也﹒


* 注 釋
1. 軍 爭﹕ 即 兩 軍 搶 先 爭 奪 制 胜 條 件﹒
2. 交 和 而 舍﹕ 和﹐ 指 和 門﹐ 即 軍 門﹔ 舍﹕ 駐 扎﹒ 意 為 兩 軍 對 壘﹒
3. 以 迂 為 直﹕ 變 迂 曲 為 近 直﹒
4. 以 患 為 利﹕ 化 患 害 為 有 利﹒
5. 后 人 發﹐ 先 人 至﹕ 比 敵 人 晚 出 發﹐ 先 到 達﹒




    Reference: http://www.readingtimes.com.tw/books/book_basic.asp?pclassid...
    www.chinavista.com/experience/warart/b5warart6.html - 6k -
pkchan
United States
Local time: 03:07
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
ok. thanks
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
当非直接的军事对垒失败后


Explanation:
当非直接的军事手段不能奏效时

或者更直接一点:当非军事手段不能奏效时

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Note added at 12 hrs (2006-07-28 15:48:03 GMT)
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当非正面军事冲突手段不能奏效时/失败后

Mark Xiang
Local time: 15:07
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
FYI 'indirection' is a specialised use, refer to source text for definition.


Explanation:
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:eG_UJvKzaiAJ:www.ausa.or...

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-07-28 04:39:42 GMT)
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see 'conjugacy'

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-07-28 04:41:53 GMT)
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also 'bypassing', 'the principle of least action'

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-07-28 04:51:36 GMT)
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“间接路线”的思想;一种间接而迂回的方式:

以柔克刚破解对华遏制 - [ Translate this page ]中国的《孙子兵法》“军事篇”曰:“以迂为直”,这是极富辩证哲理的精辟之论。1929年, 英国著名的军事理论家利德尔·哈特在其名著《历史上的决定性战争》(后称为《战略论》) 一书中,提出“间接路线”的思想,指出,在战略上,“最漫长的迂回道路,又常常是达到 ...
news.xinhuanet.com/world/2006-03/13/content_4299416.htm - 39k - Cached - Similar pages


邵斌:《孙子兵法》与外交谋略_新浪军事_新浪网 - [ Translate this page ]孙子兵法》是世界上第一部战略论著,也是人类历史上第一部军事谋略法典。其精深的谋略 思想不仅在军事领域被历代兵家所推崇,在 ... 老子》第36章)意为欲达到某种目的,往往 需要采取一种相反的手段,一种间接而迂回的方式。孙子吸取了老子的这一思想精华, ...
jczs.sina.com.cn/2004-10-29/0947238391.html - 51k - Cached - Similar pages

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Note added at 19 hrs (2006-07-28 22:23:54 GMT)
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fails = fails to be successful, fails to work 不成功,没效

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Note added at 19 hrs (2006-07-28 22:24:41 GMT)
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fails = fails to be successful, fails to work 不成功,无效


chica nueva
Local time: 20:07
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: thank you very much


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  pkchan
10 hrs
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