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Dutch to English translations [PRO] Tech/Engineering - Architecture
Dutch term or phrase:inplantingtekening
In a contract between architect and client, one of the things the architect will produce:
-> "Grafische documenten waarmee men zich, op plan, in volume op kleine schaal, een beeld kan vormen van de compositie, zoals grondplannen, doorsneden, gevels, situatie, inplantingtekeningen en basisperspectieven."
Does anyone with knowledge of CAD/architecture know what these might be in English? Google produces lots of job ads, but nothing really useful. IATE gives 'location, stacking, siting' for 'inplanting' in a public works context.
Any specific help or pointers greatly appreciated!
The “implantation drawing” of a building is a drawing of how the building fits into the context/the surrounding (this can be a street, an open space etc…).
The assistant used the words 'implantation drawing' but online that only leads to dentistry and breast enhancement addresses.
Here the assistant doesn't specify how much must be shown but the spatial planning department made that clear.
I guess if they do not know what they are talking about then nobody does; just because a person is an architect in Belgium (being a non-native English speaker) and uses certain terms, doesn't mean that such terms are truly accurate in English.
This is a country-in-house term so saying it is site plan or any other combination may not be right because what's necessary is the explanation/wording true to what is meant in BELGIUM, not what people use in the UK, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, South Africa or America.
According to Belgian governmental institution it means a plan/map additionally providing the information of the PLANNED works.
Officially: 'land registry' and how the new building will be laid out and what works are planned.
Implies these drawings are drawn up prior to the actual construction, if proposal doesn't fit in with surrounding area permission will be refused.
Site plan incorrect, shows too much, this concerns position/ perspective/planned construction.
Omdat er niet situatietekening staat maar gewoon situatie zou ik dat ruim opvatten in het rijtje doorsneden, gevel etc als "wat dan ook van belang moge zijn om uit te tekenen" naast de inplantingstekening/situatietekening op een of andere schaal. (ps: ik ben niet naar de Rietveld geweest, maar heb wel ook samengewerkt met Gerard van de Groenekan).
Although there is obviously more than one correct way of translating 'inplantingstekening' (witness this discussion!), what would you do if confronted with both 'situatietekening' and 'inplantingstekening' in the same text, as in Chris' text?
PS: I suspect that I have less experience with architecture than Lianne. I 'studied' fine art at the Rietveld, which basically means I learnt everything BUT any real drawing skills / draughtsmanship ;)
ik had je tussen () gezet als tegenhanger, maar dat was nooit persoonlijk bedoeld, m.a.w. mogelijk hebben architecten weinig taalgevoel, maar het omgekeerde kan ook voorkomen! Ik blijf JOUW vertaling nog steeds het beste vinden!
Zoek op google en je vindt talloze voorbeelden van inplantingstekeningen. Ik ben dan wel geen architect, ik heb wel 10 jaar ervaring in onderhandelingen met architecten en woningbouwcorporaties.
Well, I might sound like the mechanic who can fix most any engine, but when you ask what he is actually working on, you'll get: it's that huge chunk that goes under the bonnet. As an architect you deliver a standard number of drawings and you state what is depicted (i.e. "situatie"), (to TJC) that's what I meant. I DO recognize/appreciate your desire to get things as ling. sound as can be, but drawings say more than words. Nevertheless this type of drawing should get the correct translation. However a linguist with little knowledge of architecture might not be wished for either (LvdV). Not saying that you are one of them for you are a Rietvelder.
I don't think it's overtranslating to try and find *one* English term to cover all of the Belgian meanings of the term. Furthermore, I want to reserve 'site plan' for 'situatietekening', which is also in the list.
You're OVER-translating. Even the Belgians haven't got a clear picture what is meant. Perhaps linguistically correct, but now U have a term which will be debated by EN-speaking people, probably with 3 answers and a dozen discussion entries Translation is also making things understandable. Just stick to "site plan" (ling. abs. incorrect, but for a layman to understand). KISS!
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
42A
17:19 Nov 3, 2012
OOPS! <br>'of' at end should be 'off?'
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Comment 42: Worth a (wry) chuckle?
17:18 Nov 3, 2012
Translator: (n) A person blessed with the ability of finding a term in another language even more vague than in the original language, and cursed by those who had irrationally hoped for a more precise one.<br>Example: They translated 'inplantingtekening' with 'situationa drawing'; after all, if Belgians couldn't even define their own word, why should Brits be any better of
I hope Graham doesn't mind, but he got back to me one more time on this matter and I will just quote him verbatim once again:
‘After giving this some thought, Michael, I think situational drawing comes closest here because this can cover almost anything, even the precise location of a particular object (building, system, installation or device etc.). Inplantingstekeningen can also have front, lateral and top views when placed in a 3D environment in CAD/CAM, so the term would also cover that particular field or art. See also: invoegtekening (meaning something entirely different). Inplanten can also mean plaatsing, so this confirms my thoughts. BTW, the term inplanting is also used in the field of spatial and/or rural planning when it comes to newly developed landscape elements in existing landscapes.
I’ve now entered the term in the GWIT as “situational drawing” and “situational plan” because, in my view, this general term covers the whole spectrum of connotations. Also, this particular translation could not lead to confusion in any way.
I wish I could show you the drawings in question, but I don't have them. I've already provided all the context I've got: just 2 brief mentions in a 14,000 word contract. It really is all I've got to go on. I'll contact the agency on Monday. Trouble is the agency's client is not the architect, but the other party to the contract, so I'll just have to wait and see how far I get...
that would be a "presentatietekening" in NL-nl. In this particular case "inplantingstekening" might have been used but in general I do not think that even the Flemish would change the word "presentatie" into "inplanting". My gut-feeling says: it's a plan, not an elevation. The picture shows only 1 building: one can hardly say: it is "ingeplant".
In NL-nl we use: situatieschets. I meant that that specific word is written ON the drawings. Personally I'd opt for drawings. When presenting your plan in EN, I've always used "site plan" and got away with it. Although I've studied at Henry Van Velde Institute in Antwerp (decades ago), I have heard of the term but cannot remember if it expresses smth specific. Translation depends on source (BE-nl), I merely gave a suggestion of how I'd translate this term from a NL-nl-perspective.
I am now thinking that the inplantingstekening might not be a plan or cross-section, but rather an elevation, specifically an architect's impression of the finished building in relation to its surroundings. No corroboration for this yet, though...
Yeah right Alexander but writing the way you did IS a verbal game as what you do is your business, I'd say leave others to do what they like, I would say, you are not being forced to read this and you did not provide any substantiation, or a correct, full/adequate answer.
Grondplannen zijn specifiek plattegronden van gebouwen (zie google images), inplantingstekeningen geven het geheel van de site/bouwplaats weer, de rest van het genoemde zijn doorsneden, gevels, en (een aantal) perspectieftekeningen. Installatieplannen (of erection drawings) is volgens mij niet wat hier bedoeld wordt.
Alexander Schleber (X)
Belgium
Hello Terry
21:31 Nov 2, 2012
I am not uptight - I dislike dislike verbal games without a point. Source text is the point: => grondplannen = location plan / site plan / site map => doorsneden = cross-sections => gevels = facades => situatie = location plan, layout drawings => inplantingtekeningen => ??? what's left => basisperspectieven = basic 3D perspectives. So everybody has been giving answers that would simply duplicate what's already in the source.
I just asked Graham P. Oxtoby (author of the GWIT) and here is what he had to say about the matter:
‘I think I would just opt for “situational plan” or “situational drawing” (my own 2 cents), Michael, or, alternatively, site plan or location plan. Any compound term like site layout drawing, site layout plan etc. would be superfluous (a site IS a location!) so that’s not needed.’
Info is from an architect in Belgium, you cannot just write situation, sorry you've lost me. It's a matter of option: plan or drawing, one or the other, even both, however, definitely one at least or it makes absolutely no sense at all.
The difference according to the man with the expertise in the relevant field in Belgium, says the choice between location or situation depends on the scale. Seems to me then to be an important element, this scale matter, as I have constantly read about it in relation to this.
However, I wrote to 10 agencies today in Belgium and only two answers, that tells me they only know the answer in Belgian Dutch and what is necessary is a firm actively in league with a British firm to provide a definite answer being able to explain it fully too in both languages and no guessing or making it up.
One assistant in Belgium gave me a literal translation today saying as far as she knew it was implantation drawing.
So, it needs a little more.
If it were my assignment I'd ask the agency to get in touch with their client, or if it concerned a direct job I'd ask my client.
I just went through the list of terms in the source text ('(...) zoals grondplannen, doorsneden, gevels, situatie, inplantingtekeningen en basisperspectieven'), and this is what I came up with:
I am really getting tired of the length of this discussion. Look at the source!! All of the suggestions except mine are already listed in the Dutch souce as a separate Dutch term!
Thanks everyone for all the thoughts and contribs. Very helpful, although not yet conclusive!
I've got some additional info from another text, which is part of the same job: "het inplantings- + oriëntatieplan met de nodige foto's en de eventuele (door derden verrichte) topografische opmetingen ; dit plan toont het terrein en de inplanting van de gebouwen erop, alsook de toegangswegen, de aansluitingen op de openbare nutsvoorzieningen en de bestemming van de omliggende gebouwen en terreinen ;"
@Michael: I tend to disregard the Flemish board, as it should never have been included as a separate language option. Can't imagine anyone tracks Flemish-English questions, but not Dutch-English.
Als eenmaal het concept site plan in je hoofd zit zoals in wikipedia beschreven is, dan voegt een site layout plan daar niets aan toe. Het is dubbelop. Ik vind ook site location plan dubbelop. Maar als het ergens gangbaar is... dan zou ik me ofwel daarbij aansluiten, of een principiële keuze maken (door referenties ondersteund). De keuze is helemaal aan Chris die de context van en vereisten aan de vertaling het beste kent.
Truth is the guy I just asked in Belgium may have also simply looked it up online as he didn't know either then coming across this thread as one would, he picked a couple of options. Simply need a firm operating in Britain and Belgium who knows for sure what it is, can describe it in both languages, and obviously is someone who is fluent in both languages.
enwel: VOOR/NA (huidig/toekomstig) Dus één van de bestaande/huidige situatie en één waarin het te bebouwen blok op staat. En die hang je mooi naast elkaar op! Inplantekening is dus SITUATIEschets NA.
However, the on-site sense meant by inplantingstekening may mean that because it's a Belgian concept, that the context then means it needs writing in a descriptive way like this, or something similar: ''layout drawing including surroundings & perspective views''
Chris's text mentions 'situatie, inplantingtekeningen'. If we are to translate 'situatietekening' as 'site plan' (following GWIT), then, in order to differentiate it from 'inplantingstekening', I think it might be a good idea to translate 'inplantingstekening' as 'site location plan'.
Just wondering if you see a difference between 'site plan' (your answer) and 'site layout plan' (my answer)?
I think that the term 'inplantingstekening' is not a clearly defined concept. That is, *all* of the answers proposed here (except for maybe 'insertion plan') are correct, in different contexts, and I have found examples on the internet to back this up.
I truly think that "site plan" as defined in wikipedia covers the concept of inplantingstekeningen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site_plan I would not choose "site location plan". See for example this: "All planning applications need a site location plan (also known as a location plan) which shows the proposal in its surrounding context (...)"
An up-to-date site location plan (ordnance survey based) at a scale of 1:1250 or 1:2500. If the site is too large for these scales, 1:5,000 or 1:10,000 will be acceptable. The plan must show: •the property, adjoining properties and wherever possible at least two named roads. The properties shown should be numbered or named to ensure that the exact location of the application site is clear, •a north arrow, •the application site edged clearly with a continuous red line. A blue line should be drawn around any other land owned by the applicant, close to or adjoining the application site, •all land necessary to carry out the proposed development. For example: ◦land required for access to the site from a public highway, ◦visibility splays, ◦landscaping, ◦car parking, ◦open areas around buildings
Site layout/block plan These are drawings showing a bird's eye view of the development on the site in relation to the adjacent buildings. They should be drawn to a metric scale of 1:200 or 1:500 and include the following: •a north arrow, •the proposed development hatched or clearly marked, •any other existing buildings on the site, •the position of all trees on the site and those on adjacent land which could influence or be affected by the development, •the extent or type of any hard surfacing, •site boundaries, •boundary treatments including walls or fencing where this is proposed, •all the buildings, roads and footpaths on land adjoining the site including access arrangements, •all public rights of way crossing or adjoining the site (footpath, bridleway, restricted byway or byway open to all traffic).
I am not the expert, but, to me, as might be clear, both your options seem plausible, both for linguistic reasons and because of what Steven said, who is native speaker of Flemish. :-)
And, of course, both because of the context provided by Chris Hopley and your own input.
It looks like I will be changing the entry for 'inplanting(s)tekening' in my memoQ glossary to 'site location plan'. However, depending on the context, people (in Belgium) also seem to use the term to mean 'site layout plan', 'layout drawing', and 'installation plan'.
These pictures are very similar, the last one is what could be called a 'plattegrond' and does not "show details of the various elements within the site" as you indicated.
The last one seems to correspond even better to what Steven Segaert said.
I think this should be changed to Flemish, as I don't think Dutch people would use this phrase.
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
insertion plan
15:45 Oct 31, 2012
Niet om roet in 't eten te gooien, maar 'insertion plan' geeft aan hoe het project in de omgeving past. Zie afbeeldingen op Google. 'Site layout plan', 'installation plan', en '(site) layout drawing(s)' hebben alleen betrekking op het project zelf zonder de omgeving erbuiten. Zie ook hiervoor de Google-afbeeldingen.
• inplantingstekeningen = site plan (showing location of infrastructure) • inplanting door landmeter = site layout by surveyor • inplantingplan = topographical map
Hi Chris, I'm not a native English speaker, and I don't know the answer off-hand. I do know what the word means: it is essentially a drawing of how the new building is situated with respect to its surroundings. For example, you see the new office block not just by itself in an empty cardboard filed, but put right next to the other buildings or elements that are already there, in the place it is planned to be constructed.
Hope this helps.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
13 mins confidence:
installation plan
Explanation: Since all other types of drawings and plans are covered, this seems the most likely translation.
Alexander Schleber (X) Belgium Local time: 19:26 Native speaker of: German, English PRO pts in category: 4