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ije/je into English

English translation: leave it as is

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Croatian term or phrase:ije/je into English
English translation:leave it as is
Entered by: Zeljko Susljic

09:53 Jan 21, 2005
Croatian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
Croatian term or phrase: ije/je into English
This is a part of a theatre play and it is explainging the audience the difference between Serbian and Croatian.
"Primjer umesto primer. Rjechi umesto rechi. Umjesto umesto umesto. Prjedsednik umesto predsednik. Pjevaj umesto pevaj. Pjucaj umesto pucaj. Ubij umesto ubi."
In English one could use phrases like "theater and theatre" or "colour" and "color", but words used in the play do have a certain meaning and are there for a reason.
Zeljko Susljic
Belgium
Local time: 20:51
leave it as is
Explanation:
If there are clear references in the play to the Serbian and Croatian languages, you have no other way but to use the actual Serbian & Croatian words. Clumsy as it might seem, this really is not a problem at all. Your character would say something like: "It's rec in Serbian and rijec in Croatian" or whatever. On paper, rec and rijec would be italicised to set them apart from the rest of the English text, but the actors would have to pronounce these words in Serbian/Croatian. You can't replace rec/rijec with center/centre because the play is not about American & British E. The references are clearly to Serbian & Croatian. To get around that, you would have to make major changes to the text of the play, but a translator is not supposed to do that.

BTW, what language is "pjucaj"? :)
Selected response from:

Pavle Perencevic
Canada
Local time: 11:51
Grading comment
Mislim da je ovo najbolje moguce rjesenje, buduci da se radi o izuzetno specificnim prevodilackim problemima.
Hvala,
Zeljko
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +5leave it as is
Pavle Perencevic
5 +2very difficult concept to translate
vorloff
5 -1...
Ingrid Lovric


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
...


Explanation:
It is very difficult to give you an example of those differences. Croatian and Serbian are two different languages, like Spanish and Portuguese, or Czech and Slovakian, and although we understand each other very well, there is some difference in grammar (especially ije/je : e). Ije/je is used in Croatian, although some dialects have "e" instead, and "e" is in Serbian. But in Monte Negro, which is a part of Serbia & Monte Negro federation, "ije" is used quite often as well.
As you can see, it's all quite complicated for a person not living here, or not knowing the language, dialects and accents well, and I hope you'll get more answers from my colleagues who will maybe be able to explain it better to you! :-)


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 2 mins (2005-01-21 12:55:22 GMT)
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Problem u usporedbi s američkim i britanskim engleskim je u tome što su oba službeno engleski jezik, dok su hrvatski i srpski dva zasebna službena jezika pa je usporedba vrlo teška. Možda su španjolski i portugalski bolji primjer gdje se riječi slično, ali ne jednako pišu te različito izgovaraju, a španjolci i portugalci se sasvim dobro razumiju, osobito portugalci španjolce (iako se često prave da se ne razumiju, ali to su već neki drugi razlozi kojima ovdje nije mjesto :-))

Ingrid Lovric
Local time: 20:51
Native speaker of: Native in CroatianCroatian, Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dragomir Kovacevic: :o) sorry, dva bakrenjaka na vasu odluku da ovdje pisete kako su neki jezici razliciti u mjeri kao spanjolski i portugalski, docim se ljudi na njima ipak uspiju sporazumjeti. jos jedan smajli :o(((
6 hrs
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
very difficult concept to translate


Explanation:
I suggest talking to the author if possible to see what solution would be acceptable to her or him. If you do go with the British/Am thing you have the well known difference in pronounciation of things like schedule, tomato, potato, and can get more ideas from articles you can google. The Economist style guide (on their site) covers this a bit too. The challenge is that the author is not using different words, but the same words with a slightly different spelling and pronounciation. The other possibility is contrasting the accents of Southern Americans (with a twang) and Northern Americans (and most others). Whichever choice you go with though, it will not be a perfect solution because this is very difficult to quickly convey to non-linguists. It calls for some extremely creative adaptation, or even circumvention.

vorloff
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tanja Abramovic (X)
3 hrs
  -> Thanks Tanja!
agree  dkalinic
16 hrs
  -> Thanks Davor
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
leave it as is


Explanation:
If there are clear references in the play to the Serbian and Croatian languages, you have no other way but to use the actual Serbian & Croatian words. Clumsy as it might seem, this really is not a problem at all. Your character would say something like: "It's rec in Serbian and rijec in Croatian" or whatever. On paper, rec and rijec would be italicised to set them apart from the rest of the English text, but the actors would have to pronounce these words in Serbian/Croatian. You can't replace rec/rijec with center/centre because the play is not about American & British E. The references are clearly to Serbian & Croatian. To get around that, you would have to make major changes to the text of the play, but a translator is not supposed to do that.

BTW, what language is "pjucaj"? :)

Pavle Perencevic
Canada
Local time: 11:51
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Mislim da je ovo najbolje moguce rjesenje, buduci da se radi o izuzetno specificnim prevodilackim problemima.
Hvala,
Zeljko

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Miomira Brankovic: BTW, what language is "ubi"? As far as I know, the correct imperative in both languages is "ubij".
4 hrs
  -> 2. & 3. lice jednine aorista: Ubi se covek od prevodjenja ;)
agree  dkalinic: Ubi is the same in both languages while "pjucaj" doesn't exist.
7 hrs
agree  vorloff
7 hrs
agree  Tanja Abramovic (X)
13 hrs
agree  Nives
14 hrs
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