El Maresme

English translation: Maresme

12:11 Jul 19, 2009
Catalan to English translations [PRO]
Geography / Place names
Catalan term or phrase: El Maresme
What is the "official" version in English? There's a lot of county names in Catalonia that start with el, la, l', (el Vallès, l'Hospitalet, etc.) and the Generalitat seems to ignore the article when referring to the name in English. So El Maresme becomes "Maresme". Can I take this as authoritative? e.g. Churches in Maresme (not "in El Maresme" or "in the Maresme"). In English "the" is used in some cases (the Ukraine), so the pattern exists. Any views welcome (like maybe I'm on the wrong forum?)
MargaBBB
Local time: 03:08
English translation:Maresme
Explanation:
I live there and while I have no references to cite, I and every anglophone I've spoken to have always said Maresme without the article (like with the other "El" and "La" zones of Catalonia).
Selected response from:

Andrew Campbell
Spain
Local time: 03:08
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3Maresme
Andrew Campbell
5El Maresme
Andrew Langdon-Davies (X)
2 +2the Maresme region/Region
Sheila Hardie


  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Maresme


Explanation:
I live there and while I have no references to cite, I and every anglophone I've spoken to have always said Maresme without the article (like with the other "El" and "La" zones of Catalonia).

Andrew Campbell
Spain
Local time: 03:08
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Andrew. Good to have this confirmed.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Constantinos Faridis (X): El Maresme (en catalán central se pronuncia [mərέsmə]) es una comarca de la provincia de Barcelona (España), estrecha franja a las vertientes y a los pies de las montañas de la cordillera Litoral —sierras de San Mateo, del Corredor y de Montnegre (las dos
13 mins

agree  Marga Demmers (X): I have consulted some book in English about Catalonia and all of them say 'Maresme'.
2 hrs

agree  Milena Bosco (X): "Maresme", the region where my whole family lives and that English speaking friends call "Maresme" as well. Have a great one.
3 hrs
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
the Maresme region/Region


Explanation:
I don't have any official proof, but I'd be inclined to say 'the Maresme', qualifying it with 'region / Region' (since it is a comarca). It just sounds so wrong to me to say 'Maresme' on its own. Unlike Andrew, I don't live there, but it's just my feeling.

There are quite a few references to 'the Maresme region' on google that you can check out. However, I'll try to find more proof to see what the 'official' version should be!

Sheila

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Note added at 1 heure (2009-07-19 13:26:59 GMT)
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Yes, I have my doubt too - and I normally translate 'comarca' as 'region' but know that not everyone does. 'County' is a common translation of this term. How would you translate 'La Garrotxa' or 'La Selva'? Do they come up in your translation? Interestingly, in the gencat's website, I found the following:

http://www.gencat.cat/diue/ambits/turisme/rutes/pirineucomta...


The ancient county of Besalú was situated in what is now the Garrotxa region.

Just to confuse you further! :)))

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Note added at 1 heure (2009-07-19 13:34:47 GMT)
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In fact, if you say 'La Garrotxa region' then you should also say 'El Maresme region' I suppose. Then again, if you say 'the Garrotxa region/Region' then you should say 'the Maresme region/Region'. I don't know if there is a definitive answer, maybe it's more a question of style?

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Note added at 1 heure (2009-07-19 13:35:04 GMT)
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Vic Hotels and Accomodation in Vic Vic - [ Tradueix aquesta pàgina ]
It lies on the edge of the famous Volcanic Park of La Garrotxa. ..... is a former 17th century farmhouse situated in Cabrils, in the region of El Maresme, ...
www.priceline.co.uk/.../vic_hotels.html - Còpia en memòria - Semblants

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Note added at 1 heure (2009-07-19 13:55:54 GMT)
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Maybe the solution is to siimply keep the original 'comarca' (i italics if necessary)! Translating names is a real minefield, isn't it?

http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Comarques:of:Catalonia.htm

Home > Comarques of Catalonia
First Prev [ 1 2 ] Next Last

This is a list of the comarques (singular "comarca") of Catalonia. A comarca is roughly equivalent to a US " county" or a UK " shire" or "county". However, in the context of Catalonia, the term "county" can be a bit misleading, because in medieval Catalonia, the most important rulers were counts, notably the Counts of Barcelona and of Urgell. Comarques have no particular relation to the "counties" that were ruled by counts.
The current division of Catalonia into comarques originates in an order of the semi-autonomous Catalan government under the Spanish Republic in 1936. It was superseded after the 1939 victory of Francisco Franco's forces in the Spanish Civil War, but restored in 1987 by the re-established Generalitat de Catalunya, with minor revisions in 1988 (adding Pla de l'Estany, Pla d'Urgell and Alta Ribagorça) and 1990, when some borders were adjusted.

See also lists of municipalities for the Catalan provinces of Barcelona, Girona, Lleida, Tarragona.

Because the Catalan language has a relatively complex set of rules for the form of the definite article, and because (in Catalan) the names of comarques (except for Osona) typically take the definite article in any position except as the subject of a sentence, the following list indicates the appropriate form of the definite article for each comarca. Because Val d'Aran is an Aranese-speaking area, it is often written as "era Val d'Aran", using the Aranese definite article.

As of 2004 there is discussion of possibly further subdividing some of the comarques. [1]




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Note added at 1 heure (2009-07-19 13:57:37 GMT)
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The list:


Comarca Capital Population Area (km2)
l' Alt Camp Valls 35,635 544.7
l' Alt Empordà Figueres 99,321 74
l' Alt Penedès Vilafranca del Penedès 80,976 592.4
l' Alt Urgell La Seu d'Urgell 19,105 1,446.9
l' Alta Ribagorça Pont de Suert 3,477 426,8
l' Anoia Igualada 93,529 866.6
el Bages Manresa 155,112 1,295.2
el Baix Camp Reus 145,675 695.3
el Baix Ebre Tortosa 66,369 987.9
el Baix Empordà La Bisbal d'Empordà 102,566 700.5
el Baix Llobregat Sant Feliu de Llobregat 692,892 486.5
el Baix Penedès El Vendrell 61,256 295.5
la Baixa Cerdanya Puigcerdà 14,158 546.4
el Barcelonès Barcelona 2,093,670 143.1
el Berguedà Berga 37,995 1,182.5
la Conca de Barberà Montblanc 18,766 648.9
el Garraf Vilanova i la Geltrú 108,194 184.1
les Garrigues Les Borges Blanques 18,999 799.7
la Garrotxa Olot 47,747 734.2
el Gironès Girona 136,543 575.5
el Maresme Mataró 356,545 396.9
el Montsià Amposta 57,550 708.7
la Noguera Balaguer 34,744 1,733.0
Osona Vic 129,543 1,263.8
el Pallars Jussà Tremp 12,057 1,290.0
el Pallars Sobirà Sort 6,174 1,355.2
el Pla de l'Estany Banyoles 24.347 262.7
el Pla d'Urgell Mollerussa 29,723 304.5
el Priorat Falset 9,196 496.2
la Ribera d'Ebre Mora d'Ebre 21,656 825.3
el Ripollès Ripoll 25,744 958.7
la Segarra Cervera 18,497 721.2
el Segrià Lleida 166,090 1,393.7
la Selva Santa Coloma de Farners 117,393 995.5
el Solsonès Solsona 11,466 998.6
el Tarragonès Tarragona 181,374 317.1
la Terra Alta Gandesa 12,196 740.0
l' Urgell Tàrrega 31,026 586.2
era Val d'Aran Vielha 7,691 620.5
el Vallès Occidental Sabadell, Terrassa 736,682 580.7
el Vallès Oriental Granollers 321,431 851.9

Other historical comarques:


Comarca Capital Current status
el Rosselló ( Roussillon) Perpinyà ( Perpignan) Part of France
l' Alta Cerdanya Fontromeu Part of France
el Capcir Angles ( Les Angles ) Part of France
el Vallespir Ceret Part of France
el Conflent Prada de Conflent ( Prades ) Part of France
la Baixa Ribagorça Benavarri ( Benabarre) Part of Aragon
la Llitera Tamarit de Llitera ( Tamarite de Litera) Part of Aragon
el Baix Cinca Fraga Part of Aragon
la Matarranya Vall-de-roures ( Valderrobres) Part of Aragon



Sheila Hardie
Spain
Local time: 03:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi, Sheila, I share your doubts but thought it was because of referring to it in Catalan/Spanish and hardly ever in English. Also I am confused about "comarca" because the Generalitat uses "county" and I'd always used "region" (consell comarcal etc.)

Asker: Hi, Sheila, well, as confusion seems to be general among official sources (argh, I've just seen "shire" for "comarca" in Palau Robert, I think internal consistency is the thing. Last hope of "official" guidance is Termcat, but they may have to get a committee to sit before they decide, so am not too hopeful! Thanks for digging!

Asker: Very interesting, Sheila. Especially about the use of the article!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Berni Armstrong: If I read the word without an article and I knew nothing of Catalonia, I would assume Maresme was the name of a town. The article stresses the collective nature. Eg: The Comargue area in Southern France is always accompanied by its article.
2 hrs

agree  brooksa: agree even more after reading Berni's comment
14 hrs
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
El Maresme


Explanation:
I always keep the article and write it with a capital letter, El Maresme, and have more than once been specifically requested to do so by the client. Perhaps in some contexts it might be more euphonic to leave out the article, but in a geographical text I would use the official Catalan form. Wikipedia, however, drops the article.

Andrew Langdon-Davies (X)
Spain
Local time: 03:08
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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