Client wants certified translation for user manual
Thread poster: Alberto Queiroz
Alberto Queiroz
Alberto Queiroz  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Nov 23, 2020

Hello, fellow translators!

I'm a bit puzzled.

A prospective client of mine needs several user manual translations, but says he needs them to be certified (really – as in, he wants every page stamp-certified by a certified translator). Now, I'm not a certified translator myself, but I've been in the translating industry for over 6 years and this is the first time I come across such a request. Have I been missing out entirely and is this actually a thing?

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Hello, fellow translators!

I'm a bit puzzled.

A prospective client of mine needs several user manual translations, but says he needs them to be certified (really – as in, he wants every page stamp-certified by a certified translator). Now, I'm not a certified translator myself, but I've been in the translating industry for over 6 years and this is the first time I come across such a request. Have I been missing out entirely and is this actually a thing?

When I told him I'm not a certified translator, he asked me if I'd be able to get a certified translator to just read through and certify my translation. In his country, he said, that's common practice.

Any thoughts on that?

To me, this all sounds a bit odd. If a client needs additional assurance, I'd suppose they might be satisfied by my drawing up a contract stating that the translation is done to the best of my ability, etc., etc.

If you have a minute, please let me know your thoughts on the matter. They'll be much appreciated.
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Fabio Descalzi
 
Fabio Descalzi
Fabio Descalzi  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 16:05
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
First question to ask: certified, OK, but, what for? Nov 23, 2020

Hi Alberto.

From your words, I see that your client comes from another country. Further: does your client live and work in that other country?

In my 17+ years as a full-time freelance translator (and I am not a sworn translator, either) I have already seen several technical translation projects which involve certified translation. Usually, this is for judicial purposes (typically: a trial); there might be other cases as well.

But nevertheless: as I am not a
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Hi Alberto.

From your words, I see that your client comes from another country. Further: does your client live and work in that other country?

In my 17+ years as a full-time freelance translator (and I am not a sworn translator, either) I have already seen several technical translation projects which involve certified translation. Usually, this is for judicial purposes (typically: a trial); there might be other cases as well.

But nevertheless: as I am not a sworn translator, I cannot perform the complete translation service. The first thing to do is: ask a certified translator to do the job. If that certified translator agrees to work with you as well, that is another story. But the important point is: when a certified translation is required, then the certified translator is the responsible professional in charge.

And last, but not least: if the certified translation is needed in another country, then it is highly possible that a local sworn translator from that country will be needed.

Hope this helps.

[Edited at 2020-11-23 12:27 GMT]
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Sonia Cunha-Goldner
Sonia Cunha-Goldner
United States
Local time: 15:05
English to Portuguese
Certificate of Accuracy Nov 23, 2020

It is a document certifying that the translated document is a true and accurate translation of the original document presented to the translator or translation agency. One does not need to be certified to sign this statement.

It's provided per document, not per page.

See https://www.atanet.org/clients/client_certified_translation.php


 
Peter Motte
Peter Motte  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 20:05
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Yes, for a trial Nov 23, 2020

It might indeed be for a trial, and it's going to cost a lot of money.

Jorge Payan
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 19:05
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
@Alberto Nov 23, 2020

One thing you and your client have to consider is that certification of translations varies a lot from country to country. For instance, in Portugal to certify a translation it is necessary to make its certification at the organizations empowered to do so, namely Notary’s Offices and Attorneys. In Belgium, where I lived for 30 years, certification is done by a sworn translator and he/she shouldn’t certify a translation done by others. In other countries, any translator can certify a translat... See more
One thing you and your client have to consider is that certification of translations varies a lot from country to country. For instance, in Portugal to certify a translation it is necessary to make its certification at the organizations empowered to do so, namely Notary’s Offices and Attorneys. In Belgium, where I lived for 30 years, certification is done by a sworn translator and he/she shouldn’t certify a translation done by others. In other countries, any translator can certify a translation. So, you should check all this with your client.Collapse


Fabio Descalzi
 
Joakim Braun
Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 20:05
German to Swedish
+ ...
Well Nov 23, 2020

As a certified translator, I would not be willing to vouch for the accuracy of somebody else's translation unless it's a very short or self-explanatory document. Unlike proofreading/editing every unfamiliar term needs to be researched and double-checked, never taken on trust. Editing is often fun, but this wouldn't be. It would also take a lot of time and be quite expensive.

(And in my country of certification, Sweden, I''m fairly sure that such an assurance would have no legal valu
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As a certified translator, I would not be willing to vouch for the accuracy of somebody else's translation unless it's a very short or self-explanatory document. Unlike proofreading/editing every unfamiliar term needs to be researched and double-checked, never taken on trust. Editing is often fun, but this wouldn't be. It would also take a lot of time and be quite expensive.

(And in my country of certification, Sweden, I''m fairly sure that such an assurance would have no legal value.)

[Bearbeitet am 2020-11-23 14:10 GMT]
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Fabio Descalzi
 
Peter Motte
Peter Motte  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 20:05
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Same with MT Nov 23, 2020

Joakim Braun wrote:

As a certified translator, I would not be willing to vouch for the accuracy of somebody else's translation unless it's a very short or self-explanatory document. Unlike proofreading/editing every unfamiliar term needs to be researched and double-checked, never taken on trust. Editing is often fun, but this wouldn't be. It would also take a lot of time and be quite expensive.[Bearbeitet am 2020-11-23 14:10 GMT]


That's basically the same problem with machine translation. If lots of terminology or proper nouns of institutions and organisations are in it, it demands a lot of checking and becomes very time consuming. Not all clients are willing to understand that, even clients who are themselves translation providers.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:05
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Not your service Nov 23, 2020

Alberto Queiroz wrote:
When I told him I'm not a certified translator, he asked me if I'd be able to get a certified translator to just read through and certify my translation. In his country, he said, that's common practice.


Okay, so we already know (from his response) that in his country a certified translation can only be done by a certified translator (otherwise he would have replied to you saying that you don't need to be a certified translator). So you or he or someone is going to have to figure out what a "certified translator" is in his country, and then figure out if there is such a translator anywhere in Brazil.

I think that if you want to accept this task, then the certified translator needs to work for the client directly (although you and the certified translator would need to be able to discuss the translation). You can try to help the client to find such a translator, but ultimately it is the client's responsibility to ensure that the certified translator is truly the right kind of translator that he requires.

Then, you do the translation, and the certified translator proofreads your translation, fixes any errors that he finds, and then certifies it. In fact, given this workflow, you could easily just do the translation, send it to the client, and then leave it to the client to hire a certified translator to do the editing and certifying, without any further contact from you.

(I'm assuming that the client is able to find such a translator in the first place. It may be common practise in the client's country for certified translators to certify other people's translations, but is it common practise in Brazil?)

Or, could it be that the client wants the translation notarized? Both certification and notarization require a stamp and a signature, but they're different things. The notary typically does not guarantee that the translation is good (he simply guarantees that you were in his presence at the time that you made such a guarantee yourself).


 
Alberto Queiroz
Alberto Queiroz  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Not for a trial Nov 23, 2020

Thank you so much for your responses, @Fabio, @Peter, @Teresa, @Sonia, @Joakim and @Samuel.

I guess it makes perfect sense that a certified translator would not want to be responsible for someone else's translation – I know I wouldn't. And no – this is just a normal manual translation, not for judicial purposes.

(Can you imagine the cost for over 20 k pages of certified content?)

I think what the client may be actually after is just a quality assuranc
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Thank you so much for your responses, @Fabio, @Peter, @Teresa, @Sonia, @Joakim and @Samuel.

I guess it makes perfect sense that a certified translator would not want to be responsible for someone else's translation – I know I wouldn't. And no – this is just a normal manual translation, not for judicial purposes.

(Can you imagine the cost for over 20 k pages of certified content?)

I think what the client may be actually after is just a quality assurance of some sort, which is what I had in mind when I thought of drawing up a certificate of accuracy. Perhaps he heard the best way to ensure quality would be through a certified translation, but didn't factor in the huge cost for such a voluminous project. As for what legal value a personal assurance from me would have, I'm still not sure (after some research). In court, probably null.

It seems my task now is to put the point across that he doesn't actually need certified translation for a manual. When he said a certified translator would be needed, my first response was precisely offering to help him find a good one, but I think he wasn't aware of how much prices differ between uncertified and certified translations. And as @Samuel suggested, I imagine he could try to find someone willing to go through the whole thing once it's done and certify it, but again that doesn't seem to be common practice in Brazil, and anyway the rates for proofreading-certification would likely be similar.

Thanks again for your thoughts on the issue. I'm going to share this thread with the client and I'll post a final update if anyone cares to know how things ended.



[Edited at 2020-11-23 15:39 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-11-23 15:43 GMT]
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Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:05
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Alberto Nov 23, 2020

Alberto Queiroz wrote:
I think what the client may be actually after is just a quality assurance of some sort, which is what I had in mind when I thought of drawing up a certificate of accuracy.


Well, I know that in e.g. the United States *any* translator can certify his/her translation. It is not required in the US that the translator who certifies the translation must be a "certified translator".

Translation certification in the US often simply involves writing a statement like "I hereby certify that this is a true translation blah-blah-blah" with a signature. I personally don't feel at ease using the word "certify", and a few of my US clients for whom I have done such "certified" translations were happy with the word "declare", i.e. "I declare that this is a true translation blah-blah-blah".

(In the US, there are such things as "certified translators" but those translators are often simply accredited by a translator association... e.g. the ATA refers to their accredited translators as "certified" translators.)

So, investigate the possibility that the client was just confused by your reply when you wrote that you are "not a certified translator" and that in fact having a certified translator is not actually relevant for him.


 
Sonia Cunha-Goldner
Sonia Cunha-Goldner
United States
Local time: 15:05
English to Portuguese
Juramentada x certified Nov 23, 2020

[quote]Alberto Queiroz wrote:

When I told him I'm not a certified translator, he asked me if I'd be able to get a certified translator to just read through and certify my translation. In his country, he said, that's common practice.

------------------------------------

Another thing you have to discuss with your client is whether he wants a Certified Translation from US or a Sworn Translation (Juramentada) from Brazil. They are two different things:

Certified Translation: is not performed necessarily by a certified translator, as already mentioned. It´s a translation, certified by the translator or a translation agency, attesting the accuracy of the translation.

Sworn translation (tradução juramentada): it´s the one performed by a "tradutor juramentado", sworn before the Department of State (Junta Comercial do Estado, no Brasil), who is not the same as a Certified Translator in the USA.

Make sure your client knows the difference and knows exactly what he wants/needs.


 
Alberto Queiroz
Alberto Queiroz  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
He mentioned "a seal and signature" for each page of the translation Nov 23, 2020

What led me to immediately assume that the client actually wanted a sworn certified translation was his having expressly mentioned the need for a "seal and signature of the translator on each page of the translation".

I asked again to make sure about it, though.

I appreciate your assistance and experience enormously. Thank you, Samuel and Sonia!


 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:05
English to Arabic
+ ...
In all cases, you will have to discuss the details with your client, beforehand. Nov 23, 2020

There is sworn translator; the one accredited by the judicial system in the country(ies) where he/she operates.
And, there is certified translator; the one accredited by the/a translation organization in the country(ies) where he/she operates.
Also, there is regular translator; the one not accredited at all, neither by the judicial system, nor by the/a translation organization, in the country(ies) where he/she operates.

Furthermore, there are the judicial registration nu
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There is sworn translator; the one accredited by the judicial system in the country(ies) where he/she operates.
And, there is certified translator; the one accredited by the/a translation organization in the country(ies) where he/she operates.
Also, there is regular translator; the one not accredited at all, neither by the judicial system, nor by the/a translation organization, in the country(ies) where he/she operates.

Furthermore, there are the judicial registration number, the organization's membership number, the official stamp, the authorized signature, the written statement, and the authentication (either by notarization or affidavit).

A sworn translator only needs to affix their judicial-system-issued stamp, along with signature by the authorized signatory (but this one is usually optional); where that signatory may well NOT be the sworn translator himself/herself, but rather someone authorized by them like a co-worker, subordinate, etc.
A certified translator only needs to affix their translation-organization-issued stamp, along with signature by the authorized signatory (but this one is usually optional); where, again, that signatory may well NOT be the certified translator himself/herself, but rather someone authorized by them like a co-worker, subordinate, etc.
* Either way, the use of said stamp and affixing said signature must both be done with the knowledge and authorization by the sworn/certified translator, each and every time.
A regular translator can get their own stamp made and affix it to translations along with their signature, but both bear no effect without an official registration/membership number.
**A statement could be provided by any of the 3 translators, if explicitly required by client.
***Should the client require a notarization/affidavit, they will have to cover all the costs of such a requirement, in addition to any reward deemed fit by the translator.

Finally, there is both the present and future use of the translation by client.

All the above web of details needs to be sorted out with said client, so you both can reach the best arrangement.

My guess is the client simply needs your stamp and signature, backed by your translation-organization membership number, if any. I don't think he needs you to be either sworn nor regular. And, there is no problem in affixing such stamp and signature on each page.
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Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:05
German to English
+ ...
certifying someone else's translation Nov 27, 2020

This comes up from time to time, where I am asked to certify someone else's translation. Things vary from country to country. The Canadian system is probably somewhat like "sworn" translations. In any case, I answer that I cannot do it. My certification means that the translation was done by a certified translator (me), certified in that language pair & direction, and that to the best of my knowledge it is accurate etc. So I cannot certify someone else's work, because of the first part.

 
Paweł Hamerski
Paweł Hamerski
Poland
Local time: 20:05
English to Polish
+ ...
The approach to certifying someone else's translation in Poland is different though Dec 4, 2020

I very seldom do it myself as I hate such tasks but we have this in the official translator's tariff

 


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Client wants certified translation for user manual







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