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How can I give negative feedback to translator's WWA
Thread poster: Saiwai Translation Services
Preston Decker
Preston Decker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:27
Chinese to English
Mistake Nov 11, 2015

Egmont Schröder wrote:

Since this has been done excessively in other posts.


Refer them to me if they would pay that high. Did you mean 0.026 USD per word English to German and 0.045 € per character?


Are you sure? These rates are for English and Chinese to German (according to your profile you are only translating English), and they are nothing when you are living in Germany or Western Europe (where you deduct insurances, tax, ...). I don't think that conditions in Northern America are much different, and I suppose that most of the German translators are living in theses countries.

But anyway, I wanted to tell a different story: When I was at the beginning of my translation career, I applied for a job and put a link to my ProZ page in the application.
During the interview it turned out that they really read the WWAs and were pretty impressed. I "forgot" to tell them that is it not possible to give a negative feedback.

WWAs can have an impact on a career after translations and on people who don't know what is going on in the translation industry, so they should stay positive.


As J_yuan noted, I think your original post was missing a 0. If this is incorrect, and you really do have a client paying .45 euros per Chinese character then I'm in full agreement--send me their info!


 
What about lack of integrity on part of a translator? Nov 24, 2015

We understand that the effect of a negative feedback can affect future projects being assigned to a translator, and while there is the possibility of it being abused, there are genuine cases which need addressing.

In a recent case, we were asked to pay upfront by a translator (for better rates), and we did. This translator has some fairly high recommendations. In the end, although he started with the project, he completely stopped communicating after some time and went offline, leav
... See more
We understand that the effect of a negative feedback can affect future projects being assigned to a translator, and while there is the possibility of it being abused, there are genuine cases which need addressing.

In a recent case, we were asked to pay upfront by a translator (for better rates), and we did. This translator has some fairly high recommendations. In the end, although he started with the project, he completely stopped communicating after some time and went offline, leaving us stranded. A month later, we have been penalised by the client, had to pay out over 120% extra over and above the money we paid to this translator, and we suffered a loss in the project, of course. The translator has completely stopped communicating and does not acknowledge either emails, nor Skype messages, or even phone calls. His phone is constantly switched off.

Perhaps, we were too naive in assuming that high-rated feedback is good enough to go by. How does one address this type of lack of integrity? Should there be a way to warn others of the same, so that others don't fall into the same problems? Being forced to say "Yes, I'm willing to work with him again" is like adding insult to injury, to be honest.

[Edited at 2015-11-24 13:26 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-11-24 13:26 GMT]
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Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 20:27
Danish to English
+ ...
There are rotten apples on both sides Nov 24, 2015

I wouldn't oppose the possibility of leaving negative feedback for translators. It would help the honest and competent ones, and it would help oursourcers. In case of abusive comments left by a client, support usually deals with such problems swiftly.

 
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 17:27
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Risk management and recruiting policies Nov 24, 2015

illuminusmedia wrote:

We understand that the effect of a negative feedback can affect future projects being assigned to a translator, and while there is the possibility of it being abused, there are genuine cases which need addressing.

In a recent case, we were asked to pay upfront by a translator (for better rates), and we did. This translator has some fairly high recommendations. In the end, although he started with the project, he completely stopped communicating after some time and went offline, leaving us stranded. A month later, we have been penalised by the client, had to pay out over 120% extra over and above the money we paid to this translator, and we suffered a loss in the project, of course. The translator has completely stopped communicating and does not acknowledge either emails, nor Skype messages, or even phone calls. His phone is constantly switched off.

Perhaps, we were too naive in assuming that high-rated feedback is good enough to go by. How does one address this type of lack of integrity? Should there be a way to warn others of the same, so that others don't fall into the same problems? Being forced to say "Yes, I'm willing to work with him again" is like adding insult to injury, to be honest.


Generally, a translation agency should have risk management and recruiting policies in place to prevent this kind of situation from happening, including a "B" plan for avoiding client penalties (at a higher cost, of course).

Also, please note that you are not "being forced to say 'Yes, I'm willing to work with him again'", as WWA is an optional feature not forced on anybody.

Regards,
Enrique Cavalitto


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 21:27
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Translators can also benefit from such information Nov 24, 2015

Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
Generally, a translation agency should have risk management and recruiting policies in place to prevent this kind of situation from happening...


1. Yes, but translators can be very clever at marketing themselves.

You can fault an agency for not having any risk management, or for having grossly inadequate risk management, but the way translators market themselves can neutralise such policies. Only the most expensive risk management systems can avoid all problems. The fact is that in our industry, both translators and clients often operate on principles of trust, to keep costs down and jobs coming.

Translators should also have risk management in place, yet ProZ.com allows them to post BB entries.

2. What's more, we translators also sometimes/often use ProZ.com's directory to search for colleagues who can help us out. We do not have the resources available to large agencies to perform such "risk management". We, too, can benefit from being able to tell whether translators whose profiles are very complete and clean-looking are in fact reliable, good translators.



[Edited at 2015-11-24 15:11 GMT]


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:27
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Identity theft? Nov 24, 2015

illuminusmedia wrote:
In a recent case, we were asked to pay upfront by a translator (for better rates), and we did. This translator has some fairly high recommendations. In the end, although he started with the project, he completely stopped communicating after some time and went offline, leaving us stranded. A month later, we have been penalised by the client, had to pay out over 120% extra over and above the money we paid to this translator, and we suffered a loss in the project, of course. The translator has completely stopped communicating and does not acknowledge either emails, nor Skype messages, or even phone calls. His phone is constantly switched off.

That sounds suspiciously like identity theft to me. Someone impersonates a perfectly professional translator by contacting you using an email address that is very similar but not identical to one that the 'real' translator uses. You reply to that email address, thinking you're in communication with the 'real' translator, who is blissfully unaware of the damage being done to his/her reputation.

I suggest you Google for this translator's name and/or email address, along with the word "scam". You're quite likely to find that a scam involving this person has already been reported, in which case you wouldn't want to leave a negative comment against the 'real' translator here.

Secondly, contact the translator not through the email given (or the website given etc) but directly through the ProZ.com profile (click on the icon at the very top of their profile page) of the person you think you've been dealing with. That one is guaranteed to be received by the 'real' translator.

But to address the more general question of negative WWA feedback, I agree with Thomas T. Frost when he says
I wouldn't oppose the possibility of leaving negative feedback for translators. It would help the honest and competent ones, and it would help oursourcers. In case of abusive comments left by a client, support usually deals with such problems swiftly.

I don't see that any quality-conscious translator need feel any concern. We have ProZ.com support to look into totally fabricated claims; and we have the right of reply to genuine entries. Yes, if we deliver late then it might be recorded publicly, and be a bit embarrassing, but at least we'll be able to record an apology, an explanation or a counter-claim (e.g. the work arrived late or was not as specified).

I would be happy to accept this change and to my mind it would have a real advantage: I would feel justified in actually asking clients to leave a WWA entry on my profile. At the moment, I never ask them because they don't have total freedom to express their views, so I have to content myself with a few (very much appreciated) unsolicited entries.


 
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:27
Member (2015)
English to Spanish
Strange Nov 24, 2015

illuminusmedia wrote:

We understand that the effect of a negative feedback can affect future projects being assigned to a translator, and while there is the possibility of it being abused, there are genuine cases which need addressing.

In a recent case, we were asked to pay upfront by a translator (for better rates), and we did. This translator has some fairly high recommendations. In the end, although he started with the project, he completely stopped communicating after some time and went offline, leaving us stranded. A month later, we have been penalised by the client, had to pay out over 120% extra over and above the money we paid to this translator, and we suffered a loss in the project, of course. The translator has completely stopped communicating and does not acknowledge either emails, nor Skype messages, or even phone calls. His phone is constantly switched off.

Perhaps, we were too naive in assuming that high-rated feedback is good enough to go by. How does one address this type of lack of integrity? Should there be a way to warn others of the same, so that others don't fall into the same problems? Being forced to say "Yes, I'm willing to work with him again" is like adding insult to injury, to be honest.

[Edited at 2015-11-24 13:26 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-11-24 13:26 GMT]


It could happen, but it sounds strange. What amount are we talking about?

It is strange that a translator would behave like that because translators are very vulnerable to bad publicity.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:27
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Do you even know who you dealt with? Nov 25, 2015

illuminusmedia wrote:
Perhaps, we were too naive in assuming that high-rated feedback is good enough to go by.

Yes, perhaps you were. Ask yourself these questions.

  • Do you know this translator's name and address?

  • Does this translator live in a country where the legal system is accessible, such as the UK and most major European jurisdictions?

If the answer to both questions is "yes" then you should be able to bring a small claims action against him over the internet without too much problem. Start tomorrow morning.

If the answer to either of the above questions is "no" then you have a problem of your own making.

This particular golden rule of business is very simple: be sure you know with whom you are dealing.

In the case of myself and no doubt of the other expert translators on this forum, my clients deal with me because I am competent and professional. But that's not the only reason.

My clients also deal with me because they are confident that they know exactly who I am, exactly where they can find me and - if the worst comes to the worst - exactly how they can recover their money.

Good luck.

Dan


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:27
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Scammed... Nov 25, 2015

illuminusmedia wrote:
In a recent case, we were asked to pay upfront by a translator (for better rates), and we did. This translator has some fairly high recommendations. In the end, although he started with the project, he completely stopped communicating after some time and went offline, leaving us stranded. A month later, we have been penalised by the client, had to pay out over 120% extra over and above the money we paid to this translator, and we suffered a loss in the project, of course. The translator has completely stopped communicating and does not acknowledge either emails, nor Skype messages, or even phone calls. His phone is constantly switched off.

You clearly have been scammed, not by a translator. It stinks of impersonation...


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:27
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Exactly - Know your translators... and know your outsourcers! Nov 25, 2015

Dan Lucas wrote:
This particular golden rule of business is very simple: be sure you know with whom you are dealing.

In the case of myself and no doubt of the other expert translators on this forum, my clients deal with me because I am competent and professional. But that's not the only reason.

My clients also deal with me because they are confident that they know exactly who I am, exactly where they can find me and - if the worst comes to the worst - exactly how they can recover their money.

Exactly. Well put.

May I add that, as a translator, I would never work for someone who hires me via Proz.com and does not show a full profile in Proz.com, as well as faces and addresses online. The be-sure-you-know rule also applies to translators.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:27
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
An anecdote on money laundering Nov 25, 2015

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
The be-sure-you-know rule also applies to translators.

Indeed it does. I am amazed that both sides spend so little effort in establishing identities.

In finance it is an absolute prerequisite to know the true identity of the company with which you are dealing so as to prevent money laundering.

At one of the banks at which I worked in Tokyo an attractive, very expensively dressed woman turned up one day at reception. I later heard that she wanted to open an account and buy some stocks. Moreover, she had a bag full of bundles of cash, ready to go.

Now, that firm didn't deal with individuals, only large institutional investors, so there was no way she was going to get an account with us. However, the other reason her attempt was doomed to failure was that we had no idea who she was.

She might have been an entirely legitimate albeit rather eccentric investor. On the other hand, she might have been an associate of an organised crime group trying to inject money into the legitimate side of the financial system as part of the money laundering process.

The firm didn't know and certainly wasn't going to take the risk. Notwithstanding the bag full of cash, she was shown out immediately. Translators and outsourcers should aim for the same degree of caution in their transactions.

I understand Samuel's point about risk management but I disagree with his conclusions. Good risk management doesn't have to be expensive.

For example, knowing exactly who your counterparty is reduces scammer risk dramatically and it doesn't require any money. Spend two minutes looking at my ProZ profile and my "CV" and you will have my work address, email and contact numbers.

Spend another two minutes cross-checking the address of my company at the UK's Companies House and you can be pretty sure who you're dealing with. Take a look at LinkedIn for further cross-checking.

Full disclosure doesn't invite identity theft; it discourages it.

Regards
Dan


 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:27
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
Could also be .... Nov 25, 2015

illuminusmedia wrote:

We understand that the effect of a negative feedback can affect future projects being assigned to a translator, and while there is the possibility of it being abused, there are genuine cases which need addressing.

In a recent case, we were asked to pay upfront by a translator (for better rates), and we did. This translator has some fairly high recommendations. In the end, although he started with the project, he completely stopped communicating after some time and went offline, leaving us stranded. A month later, we have been penalised by the client, had to pay out over 120% extra over and above the money we paid to this translator, and we suffered a loss in the project, of course. The translator has completely stopped communicating and does not acknowledge either emails, nor Skype messages, or even phone calls. His phone is constantly switched off.

Perhaps, we were too naive in assuming that high-rated feedback is good enough to go by. How does one address this type of lack of integrity? Should there be a way to warn others of the same, so that others don't fall into the same problems? Being forced to say "Yes, I'm willing to work with him again" is like adding insult to injury, to be honest.

[Edited at 2015-11-24 13:26 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-11-24 13:26 GMT]


... that something bad or even worse (use your imagination) happened to the translator.

Ever thought about that?


 
Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 20:27
Danish to English
+ ...
Indeed Nov 25, 2015

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

May I add that, as a translator, I would never work for someone who hires me via Proz.com and does not show a full profile in Proz.com, as well as faces and addresses online. The be-sure-you-know rule also applies to translators.


Absolutely, although a scammer would just copy a nice photo of a good-looking, young female from somewhere, so I don't include a photo in my criteria.

Apart from full company information in the Proz profile, on their website, and in a business register (when possible), as Dan said, I sometimes look up the domain owner in whois (e.g. on http://whois.domaintools.com/ ) and/or the geographical location of the IP address they wrote from (e.g. on www.ipgeek.net , although it doesn't seem to be working right now).


 
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