Awarding KudoZ points earned by an answer after a question has closed Thread poster: James McVay
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James McVay 
United States
Local time: 09:55
Russian to English
+ ...
I'd like to suggest adding a button to KudoZ questions after a question has closed for awarding points for deserving answers not selected by the asker.
In my opinion, the KudoZ system is one of the website's best features. I have frequently found answers to questions asked by others helpful for solving difficult translation problems. In fact, when researching terminology I regularly search the ProZ.com website for KudoZ questions posted in the past. i prefer looking at all of the an... See more I'd like to suggest adding a button to KudoZ questions after a question has closed for awarding points for deserving answers not selected by the asker.
In my opinion, the KudoZ system is one of the website's best features. I have frequently found answers to questions asked by others helpful for solving difficult translation problems. In fact, when researching terminology I regularly search the ProZ.com website for KudoZ questions posted in the past. i prefer looking at all of the answers to a question rather than searching the ProZ glossaries for three basic reasons:
1) Askers don't always make glossary entries;
2) I want to review any discussion about the answers;
3) For a variety of reasons, the answer awarded points by the asker isn't always the correct answer, or it iust isn't the best fit for the translation I'm working on at the time.
In fact, I sometimes use an answer that wasn't selected as best by the asker or the community. Judging by frequent complaints about the KudoZ system, I'm not alone in believing that the "best" answer doesn't always win.
A button that appears after a question has closed would provide a second chance for earning and awarding points, and it would provide an extra incentive for answering questions .
I also suggest adding a required text entry field for justifying rhe awarding of points after a question has closed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | As I said on another forum.... | May 7, 2015 |
.... subjectivity rules, especially here on Proz. If an answer doesn't fit your question, find another. On the other hand, when I ask a question, and even if an answer got 10 'agrees', but doesn't fit into my translation, and the one with 0 'agrees' does, guess which one I choose?
| | | | Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 15:55
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
While I agree that the answers selected often leave a lot to be desired, I can hardly see ProZ changing the points system to accommodate new answers qualifying for points.
e.g. What happens to the original person awarded the points? Are theirs removed?
Not going to happen, IMO.
I don't think it's practical or imminent but the underlying idea is sound.
Askers, by definition, don't know the answer. But they can be broadly divided into two classes:
a) Th... See more While I agree that the answers selected often leave a lot to be desired, I can hardly see ProZ changing the points system to accommodate new answers qualifying for points.
e.g. What happens to the original person awarded the points? Are theirs removed?
Not going to happen, IMO.
I don't think it's practical or imminent but the underlying idea is sound.
Askers, by definition, don't know the answer. But they can be broadly divided into two classes:
a) The knowledgeable, who are stumped by something unusual, a neologism, dodgy/obscure usage, poor wording or simply something they've never come across before.
These askers are very likely to choose the correct answer. (I know that ProZspeak prefers to say "the most helpful answer" and this may well be the case on occasions, but some answers are just correct. Full stop)
b) The clueless, who are not only floundering about, drowning in a sea of "whereas's", "wheretofor's", "herefrom's" and "In witness whereof's"....etc. but are also up against a tight deadline and are desperate to "fill in the gaps".
Robert Rietvelt wrote:
.... subjectivity rules, especially here on Proz. If an answer doesn't fit your question, find another. On the other hand, when I ask a question, and even if an answer got 10 'agrees', but doesn't fit into my translation, and the one with 0 'agrees' does, guess which one I choose?
Of course it's subjective. James' aim (if I'm not mistaken) is to add a filter to the answers chosen by the b) askers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | James McVay
United States
Local time: 09:55
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I agree, Robert | May 8, 2015 |
I do the same thing when I ask a question. While it's nice to see what others think about the answers, I always make up my own mind about which answer best fits the context I'm working with.
But when I run a search on a term and turn up a question from the past, it not infrequently happens that the answer selected by the asker doesn't work for me, but a different answer does. In such cases, it would be nice to reward the person who gave the answer I prefer.
And maybe it... See more I do the same thing when I ask a question. While it's nice to see what others think about the answers, I always make up my own mind about which answer best fits the context I'm working with.
But when I run a search on a term and turn up a question from the past, it not infrequently happens that the answer selected by the asker doesn't work for me, but a different answer does. In such cases, it would be nice to reward the person who gave the answer I prefer.
And maybe it's my ego speaking, but I suspect that occasionally the same thing happens with my answers that aren't selected. How about you? ▲ Collapse
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Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:55
Russian to English
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In memoriam | It takes two to tango | May 8, 2015 |
Questions can only be closed and points awarded automatically to an answerer (if the asker has not done so) if there are at least two agrees. It is a good deed to look for unanswered questions with no agrees or only one, and give an agree if you think an answer deserves one. I have sometimes been awarded points for a question years old because someone has done this.
| | | | James McVay
United States
Local time: 09:55
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Maybe I'm not making myself clear | May 8, 2015 |
Andy, the idea isn't to punish people whose answers were awarded points but to reward those whose answers proved useful to someone else. I' m not suggesting removing points. What I'd like to see is a button that lets me give a different deserving person points -- a second-chance button, if you will.
And Jack, this button would effectively accomplish your aim, as well.
I do agree, however, that it's unlikely ProZ will change the system -- it would entail extra work (and ... See more Andy, the idea isn't to punish people whose answers were awarded points but to reward those whose answers proved useful to someone else. I' m not suggesting removing points. What I'd like to see is a button that lets me give a different deserving person points -- a second-chance button, if you will.
And Jack, this button would effectively accomplish your aim, as well.
I do agree, however, that it's unlikely ProZ will change the system -- it would entail extra work (and possibly extra expense, as well). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:55
Serbian to English
+ ...
| THE biggest problem with KudoZ | May 8, 2015 |
Andy Watkinson wrote:
Askers, by definition, don't know the answer. But they can be broadly divided into two classes:
a) The knowledgeable, who are stumped by something unusual, a neologism, dodgy/obscure usage, poor wording or simply something they've never come across before.
These askers are very likely to choose the correct answer. (I know that ProZspeak prefers to say "the most helpful answer" and this may well be the case on occasions, but some answers are just correct. Full stop)
b) The clueless, who are not only floundering about, drowning in a sea of "whereas's", "wheretofor's", "herefrom's" and "In witness whereof's"....etc. but are also up against a tight deadline and are desperate to "fill in the gaps".
That is the biggest defect of the whole KudoZ idea - it's based on the assumption that the Asker is the one best placed to select the right answer given the context of the ST, which certainly is the case of the group (a) the knowledgeable, who are stumped by one or two words, and know the subject matter well enough to be able to recognize the right answer, however it may sound counterintuitive to the layman.
Unfortunately, there is also the group (b), who do not understand practically the whole text they took on to translate, and will select a "right answer" on some criteria, but not necessarily of how the proposed translation fits in the context (can't do that if you haven't got a clue about the whole text, can you?)
Anyway, points are secondary; even clueless askers are secondary, the main point is giving your brain a good work-out and perfecting your own skills and avoiding other people's mistakes.
to go back to the idea of giving additional points for closed questions.
The given answer is supposed to be the right one in the context of one specific ST. Answers that are relevant in some other context may by useful for someone reading KudoZ entries months or years later, but they are still not the right answers for the question that was asked.
| | | | James McVay
United States
Local time: 09:55
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | So require that the awarding of points be justified | May 8, 2015 |
Daryo wrote:
The given answer is supposed to be the right one in the context of one specific ST. Answers that are relevant in some other context may by useful for someone reading KudoZ entries months or years later, but they are still not the right answers for the question that was asked.
That's why I suggested also adding a mandatory text entry field to justify the awarding of points to an additional person.
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Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 06:55
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Deleted
[Edited at 2015-05-08 19:20 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 09:55
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| I have sometimes added an AGREE | May 8, 2015 |
to very old and closed KudoZ questions (that I find while searching for a term) for an answer that was NOT awarded the points because I thought the asker chose the wrong answer (perhaps because there were a lot of agrees). This frequently happens when the asker, the answerer and the agreers are all not native speakers and answers are chosen that are completely wrong.
I do this to help any future person who may be searching the term, in the hope that when they see "AGREE - 3,400 day... See more to very old and closed KudoZ questions (that I find while searching for a term) for an answer that was NOT awarded the points because I thought the asker chose the wrong answer (perhaps because there were a lot of agrees). This frequently happens when the asker, the answerer and the agreers are all not native speakers and answers are chosen that are completely wrong.
I do this to help any future person who may be searching the term, in the hope that when they see "AGREE - 3,400 days - This is the correct answer", perhaps that will give them pause to reflect and not choose the winning answer by default.
[Edited at 2015-05-08 18:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 06:55
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
| Answers and agrees | May 8, 2015 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
to very old and closed KudoZ questions (that I find while searching for a term) for an answer that was NOT awarded the points because I thought the asker chose the wrong answer (perhaps because there were a lot of agrees). This frequently happens when the asker, the answerer and the agreers are all not native speakers and answers are chosen that are completely wrong.
I do this to help any future person who may be searching the term, in the hope that when they see "AGREE - 3,400 days - This is the correct answer", perhaps that will give them pause to reflect and not choose the winning answer by default.
[Edited at 2015-05-08 18:52 GMT]
I have also posted disagrees to closed questions when the answer selected was clearly wrong so that anyone searching the term will not be misled.
[Edited at 2015-05-09 07:27 GMT]
| | | | | Let bygones be bygones | May 8, 2015 |
@James
To answer the question you asked me: 'No'. The points are divided, let it be (subjectivity), but what I would like to see is that I can give points to more than one person. Sometimes I can use more answers, and sometimes I do to avoid repetitions. Both answers are right, but I can only give my points to one colleague. Proz, maybe something to think about.
@Andy
I agree. Most of the time I ask a question on Proz, it is not that I don't know what the w... See more @James
To answer the question you asked me: 'No'. The points are divided, let it be (subjectivity), but what I would like to see is that I can give points to more than one person. Sometimes I can use more answers, and sometimes I do to avoid repetitions. Both answers are right, but I can only give my points to one colleague. Proz, maybe something to think about.
@Andy
I agree. Most of the time I ask a question on Proz, it is not that I don't know what the word/term means, but how do we (in my language) call it? On the internet I find about 10 possibilities and photo's, hell I even got the item stashed away in my attic, but I have no idea about its name. That is where Proz comes in.
But when I see somebody asking 20 questions a day, I get the feeling that we are doing his/her translation.
I also answer a lot of questions, and it is frustating seeing somebody choosing another answer while I think mine is better, but such is life, and hey, I do the same (see my first comment). ▲ Collapse
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