| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Suggestion: semi-randomise results in directory listings Thread poster: Samuel Murray
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 00:09
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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TOPIC STARTER
Mikhail Kropotov wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
Imagine how it would have been if the search results were simply alphabetical (instead of based on KudoZ). See, that's a perfect example of a bad criterion. KudoZ points have their issues, but they work.
I'm afraid they don't "work" any better than an alphabetical listing would "work". Perhaps what you mean by "they work" is that people know how to manipulate the system (and I mean "manipulate" in a neutral sense). But that is true of any existing system, whether it "works" or not.
In my language pairs and specialization areas your statement simply doesn't hold true. It is NOT the same 50 people showing up in search results every time. Well, within a day or maybe a week, it is.
You may be right. I just did a search for Russian > English with the specialisation "Medical". The #1 translator is unlikely to be dethroned soon, but I would be surprised if the rest of the first page will change regularly. Also, I had a look at page 5 of the results, and found many translators who appeared to be potentially good candidates (judging by their profiles, since I can't speak Russian), but who will never be on page 1.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 23:09
Member (2007)
English
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| Everyone has the same opportunity | Oct 21, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Of course I don't disagree that KudoZ ranking has been used for a very long time, and I really don't understand why you think it is relevant whether it is a secret or not a secret.
It's just that, as Mikhail says, you learn the rules of the game. We all know them; we can all follow them. Nobody is prevented from gaining as many points as other translators in their pair, are they? If they are, then that's definitely something that needs to be addressed. In pairs where there are few KudoZ questions to be answered (I would imagine that might apply to you, Samuel), then just a few points would see you at the top of the list. In pairs like mine you need a good few more, but you really only have to concentrate on your specialisations. If I got 3000 points for answering engineering questions it would look impressive (especially to me  ) but it wouldn't get me any higher in the ranking for a tourism search.
While it is true that translators with lots of KudoZ will likely be good translators, it is patently untrue that translators with no KudoZ points will likely be bad translators.
I quite agree. It's equally untrue that non-paying users will likely be bad translators. I'm sure nobody would disagree with that. But the site displays all paying members first in the list, regardless of the KudoZ points earned by non-paying users. It's all about investment in the site: money and/or time.
BTW: ProZ.com's reputation is important to me because I'm a member of the community. Staying here under my real name, and particularly putting my money where my mouth is, would be untenable for me if I was ashamed of being associated with it. I sincerely hope it's important to ProZ.com staff, too.
| | | | | Equality is irrelevant | Oct 21, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
While it is true that translators with lots of KudoZ will likely be good translators, it is patently untrue that translators with no KudoZ points will likely be bad translators. I have discovered this very recently when I visited some of the lower pages of the search results and were surprised to discover the names of several people whom I know to be good translators but who are listed at the bottom of the results page for no other reason than the fact that they don't do KudoZ.
While we're at it, why don't I get to govern the country as president. Just for a few minutes! Hey, everyone deserves the same chance as everyone else, don't they?
OK, that may be extreme. Let's tone it down. Next time we go to the polls, the candidates running for president will be drawn from the eligible populace at random. And then we vote... so technically it won't be REALLY random, since the people (aka the customer) will have a choice in the matter.
[Edited at 2013-10-21 17:02 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-10-21 17:04 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 18:09
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
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| Results in directory listings | Oct 21, 2013 |
I think it should be possible to "Like" individual posts on threads (with a limit to the number of posts an individual can "like" each day in order to prevent cheating).
Directory listings would then be provided using an algorithm mixing KudoZ posts, number of liked posts, points for articles submitted, etc. In other words, directory position would be based on one's overall useful participation on the site (as determined by the users themselves) with members listed first (paying be... See more I think it should be possible to "Like" individual posts on threads (with a limit to the number of posts an individual can "like" each day in order to prevent cheating).
Directory listings would then be provided using an algorithm mixing KudoZ posts, number of liked posts, points for articles submitted, etc. In other words, directory position would be based on one's overall useful participation on the site (as determined by the users themselves) with members listed first (paying being a big support of the site).
This would give people a chance to improve their "ranking" regardless of how they choose to participate and share their knowledge. ▲ Collapse
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| Could you please clarify | Oct 21, 2013 |
By "number of liked posts," do you mean how many other people's posts I've liked, or how many likes my own posts have received?
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
I think it should be possible to "Like" individual posts on threads (with a limit to the number of posts an individual can "like" each day in order to prevent cheating).
Directory listings would then be provided using an algorithm mixing KudoZ posts, number of liked posts, points for articles submitted, etc. In other words, directory position would be based on one's overall useful participation on the site (as determined by the users themselves) with members listed first (paying being a big support of the site).
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 18:09
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
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I meant how many likes your own posts have received.
And I suppose we should also limit the number of "likes" someone receives from each individual so that two people do not favorite everything the other writes.
Example: "Sorry, you have reached the maximum number of likes for Samuel Murray".
But then again, whenever you attempt to prevent cheating, things just get complicated and maybe random is just better.
Mikhail Kropotov wrote:
By "number of liked posts," do you mean how many other people's posts I've liked, or how many likes my own posts have received?
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I'd support randomisation whenever the alternative were simply registration time or time the person achieved his or her current number of Kudoz points, or alphabetical ordering, especially in the 0 point range.
Random does seem fairer than alphabetical, while I guess it wouldn't be unfair on the veterans, as long standing and registration seniority isn't perhaps a conclusive claim to priority in listings.
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 16:09
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
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| Effectiveness rate. | Feb 7, 2014 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
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Currently, the main factor that determines a member's position in the directory search results is the number of KudoZ points. I don't think this is fair to new members or to members who are active participants in ProZ.com but whose main participation is not KudoZ. I also don't think that sorting by KudoZ points it is successful in ensuring that good translators are closer to the top of the list and that bad translators are closer to the bottom of the list.
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I think there should be 2 main criteria to sort translators in a search:
- the total number of Kudz points
- and the effectiveness rate
An effectiveness rate would be very useful for new translators, because I have seen cases wherein young translators, but really professionals, rise rapidly the Kudoz list. This is due to their high quality of answers, they almost recieve the Kudoz.
Unfortunately, they will have to answer Kudoz for 3 years at least to appear in the top because their total number of Kudos is not so high. On the other side, if we sort translators according to their effectiveness rate, I'm pretty sure those "new"/"young" translators would appear in the top.
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Regi2006
Indonesia
Local time: 05:09
Member (2007)
English to Indonesian
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| My suggestion is ... | Aug 21, 2016 |
Dear Colleagues,
I just found this thread.
It's just recently that I think that the translator directory search results system is rather unfair to new members. So, here is m... See more Dear Colleagues,
I just found this thread.
It's just recently that I think that the translator directory search results system is rather unfair to new members. So, here is my suggestion.
http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/305705-improvement_of_the_translator_directory_search_results.html
As you can see from its home page, ProZ welcomes new 'PAID' members almost every day. And I think it's time for ProZ to start thinking about providing "level playing field" to all of its PAID members, old or new, in terms of translator directory search results.
Best regards,
Verdi ▲ Collapse
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