Distinguish between software versions in search Thread poster: Samuel Murray
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 03:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Hello
I find it odd that when I do a directory search, I can select "Wordfast" but not specify which version of Wordfast. This is annoying because Wordfast Classic, Wordfast Pro and Wordfast Anywhere are three distinctly different programs, and not all "Wordfast" translators can and do use all three.
The same problem applies to when I visit the profile pages of individual translators -- unless the translator specifically mentions the version of Wordfast in his "About m... See more Hello
I find it odd that when I do a directory search, I can select "Wordfast" but not specify which version of Wordfast. This is annoying because Wordfast Classic, Wordfast Pro and Wordfast Anywhere are three distinctly different programs, and not all "Wordfast" translators can and do use all three.
The same problem applies to when I visit the profile pages of individual translators -- unless the translator specifically mentions the version of Wordfast in his "About me" section, the profile page will simply say "Wordfast", which is not useful. That's about as useful as saying "CAT tool - yes/no" or "Computer - yes/no".
In fact, a large number of translators who use Wordfast Classic actually use version 3 (because it is free), which lacks most of the features that one might expect of a modern CAT tool, that is present in e.g. Wordfast Classic 5 or 6.
The same thing happens with Trados versions -- the programs Trados 2007 and Trados 2009/11/14 are completely different from each other, and when I'm looking for a colleage with one version of Trados, it is not useful if the search results contain a bunch of translators who don't use that version or even have it.
And even if I know that a translator has a more modern version of Trados, it helps little if he has 2009 and the feature I need him to use is only available in 2011 or 2014.
So, my suggestion: remove the options "Wordfast" and "SDL TRADOS" from the list of CAT tools in profile pages and in the search options, and replace it with:
Wordfast Classic 3
Wordfast Classic 4/5/6
Wordfast Pro
Wordfast Anywhere
Trados in MS Word (RTF)
Trados TagEditor (TTX)
SDL Studio 2009
SDL Studio 2011
SDL Studio 2014
Your thoughts?
Samuel ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I don't think it will help much | Sep 28, 2013 |
Most of the absolute and unmitigating demands for Trados are caused by translation outsourcers who read SDL advertising, that it would make translation better, faster, and - most of all - cheaper, and believed it as if it were gospel. Most of these resolute outsourcers wouldn't be able to tell Trados apart from VisiCalc, weren't it for the Windows interface.
I've never seen such unjustified demands for WordFast or any other CA... See more Most of the absolute and unmitigating demands for Trados are caused by translation outsourcers who read SDL advertising, that it would make translation better, faster, and - most of all - cheaper, and believed it as if it were gospel. Most of these resolute outsourcers wouldn't be able to tell Trados apart from VisiCalc, weren't it for the Windows interface.
I've never seen such unjustified demands for WordFast or any other CAT tool. Yet they come up strongly for Trados on very short documents (e.g. 300 words, no matches), handwritten originals, and even for script-less audio/video translation.
I understand that some large projects require integration of several translators, their TMs, etc. As I see it, nowadays these are gradually being handled more often with MemoQ portable licenses (provided by the outsourcer - of course, always the very same version) than Trados.
In any case, if the CAT software version is so relevant to a specific project, it's better to contact all owners of that CAT tool, saying they must have version X, release Y, build Z, otherwise they are welcome NOT to reply. Perhaps one of them is on their way to upgrade, or hasn't bothered yet to update their Proz profile on their latest upgrade. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 03:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | These are not different versions but different programs | Sep 28, 2013 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
In any case, if the CAT software version is so relevant to a specific project, it's better to contact all owners of that CAT tool...
These "versions" aren't really versions at all, but different programs. That's like being able to filter translators on whether they have "Microsoft" programs and then having to ask them all to write back only if they have Excel. Your approach would lead to more useless mails to translators. And isn't the whole point of a search filter that you don't have to waste time waiting for a reply about whether the person does or doesn't use program X?
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 03:31
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Don't overestimate the CAT knowledge of your contact persons | Sep 28, 2013 |
Hello Samuel,
Many years ago I regularly worked for temp agencies. When personal computers began to appear in offices the ladies that functioned as intermediaries between me and the end clients started to ask me weird questions like: can you program a Lotus spread sheet, can you build a database, can you create a WP document? They just didn't have a clue.
Nowadays, PMs are often at least half my age and most of them will have moved on before mastering the subtle differe... See more Hello Samuel,
Many years ago I regularly worked for temp agencies. When personal computers began to appear in offices the ladies that functioned as intermediaries between me and the end clients started to ask me weird questions like: can you program a Lotus spread sheet, can you build a database, can you create a WP document? They just didn't have a clue.
Nowadays, PMs are often at least half my age and most of them will have moved on before mastering the subtle differences between anything. So, no, let's not complicate things for them. Let's just ask them for the files they can deliver and give them back the files they want to receive.
Your perfectly logical suggestion wouldn't be good for business.
Cheers,
Gerard ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 03:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Gerard de Noord wrote:
Nowadays, PMs are often at least half my age and most of them will have moved on before mastering the subtle differences between anything. So, no, let's not complicate things for them. Let's just ask them for the files they can deliver and give them back the files they want to receive.
Yes, but isn't that the problem (for both PMs and translators)? The translator uses Wordfast Classic but he calls it "Wordfast", and the PM wants someone to translate "Wordfast" files, so he contacts the translator, asks him if he can translate in Wordfast, gets a positive response, lets the translator see the DOC files, and after all the negotiations are finished, sends the poor translator the TXML files, which the translator has no idea how to translate.
Allowing people to select only the name of the company that makes the tools, instead of the actual tool, is like going back to the days when people thought that "CAT tool" means "Trados" and "Trados" means "CAT tool". By making available only the options "Trados" and "Wordfast", ProZ.com helps perpetuate the misunderstanding that Trados is Trados is Trados and that Wordfast is Wordfast is Wordfast.
The same applies to translators who fill in their profile details -- by giving the translator limited options to select from, ProZ.com does non-well-read translators a disservice.
By not allowing clients to search for "Trados TagEditor" in the directory search, ProZ.com takes away the advantage that I have over other Trados-owning translators who don't have TagEditor.
Or, if I want to outsource some work to colleagues and I need them to use features that are present in Wordfast 4/5/6 but not in Wordfast 3, then I want to be able to filter out translators who only have Wordfast 3. Every bit of information that I can't filter out is something that I have to ask translators about and something that I have to read several e-mails for to get the answer.
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I kind of agree with Samuel and although I would never personally use this feature (on a directory search), it does make a lot of sense to at least give us the option to include specific version information in our profiles. It doesn't seem that it would be all that difficult to implement either, although it might take some time for people to get around to updating their profiles to include the more specific information.
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 03:31
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| The community has spoken | Sep 29, 2013 |
Dear Samuel,
The community has decided that this subject is not of interest to them. So, I repeat, let's not give away our trading secrets and let's take care that others operate in the dark.
Cheers,
Gerard
PS I've used all Wordfast tools and applications since the beginning of this century. I wonder what a PM could ask me to surprise me.
PPS Agencies that still want us to translate TTX files are so ashamed that they no longer dare to ask... See more Dear Samuel,
The community has decided that this subject is not of interest to them. So, I repeat, let's not give away our trading secrets and let's take care that others operate in the dark.
Cheers,
Gerard
PS I've used all Wordfast tools and applications since the beginning of this century. I wonder what a PM could ask me to surprise me.
PPS Agencies that still want us to translate TTX files are so ashamed that they no longer dare to ask us for a TM.
PPS 100% of all SDLX Trados Studio packages I had to process this year contained 0% of useful information.
[Edited at 2013-09-29 23:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 03:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | "The community has spoken" | Sep 30, 2013 |
Gerard de Noord wrote:
The community has decided that this subject is not of interest to them.
What on earth does that mean? Two people in this thread are against it (for reasons I still can't figure out, but my best guess is: nostalgia). And two people are for it.
PPS Agencies that still want us to translate TTX files are so ashamed that they no longer dare to ask us for a TM.
Agencies who are "ashamed" can only be ashamed if they are aware that TagEditor is a specific [old] version of Trados. Agencies who are blissfully unaware that the world has moved on without them will not be ashamed, and will search for "Trados" users, and will get a long list of translators whose ability to handle their files is a matter of luck.
PPS 100% of all SDLX Trados Studio packages I had to process this year contained 0% of useful information.
Yes, but regardless of how useful the package files are, if the translator doesn't have Trados 2011, he won't be able to open a 2011 package file anyway. So if an agency sends out 2011 packages, it would be useful to them to be able to filter out translators who are unable to handle that file format.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 03:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Not all outsourcers use the "e-mail" method of contacting translators | Sep 30, 2013 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
In any case, if the CAT software version is so relevant to a specific project, it's better to contact all owners of that CAT tool, saying they...
If I understand correctly, according to ProZ.com statistics, the most used method of selecting a translator is not by sending a bulk e-mail to everyone in the search results, but to visit individual profile pages and then selecting only those that look impressive.
Now if I do a search for translators in e.g. Spain, then I'm not going to re-check every profile page's "About me" section to make sure that the translator is truly in Spain, because that's what the search filter is for. In the same way, if I do a search for translators who have "Trados", examining the profile pages to see exactly which version of Trados the translator uses is going to be secondary.
You must also remember that few translators mention their CAT tools in their "About me" section (I suppose they don't think about it, seeing as they have already done so in the "CAT tool" section), and I wonder how many agencies actually read the entire "About me" section anyway.
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