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Marketing member services ("Project Connect"), part 3: Premium job postings
Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
Clarisa Moraña
Clarisa Moraña  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:44
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I'm sorry, but I don't get the idea Sep 21, 2006

As far as I'm concerned, I've seen our sourcers of jobs (be it Agencies or direct clients) trying to increase their revenues and to decrease the rate they pay to translators. So many times I've been requested to reduce my rates, I'm tired of that.
Rates, at least in my language pair, have been decreasing. Last year I had to work three times more to get the about same amount of money I got in 2001. I do not sleep well, my heart has suffered (I've have high blood pressure). This year I had
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As far as I'm concerned, I've seen our sourcers of jobs (be it Agencies or direct clients) trying to increase their revenues and to decrease the rate they pay to translators. So many times I've been requested to reduce my rates, I'm tired of that.
Rates, at least in my language pair, have been decreasing. Last year I had to work three times more to get the about same amount of money I got in 2001. I do not sleep well, my heart has suffered (I've have high blood pressure). This year I had to choose between my health and my work. I managed to increase my rates a little bit, but I'm still working too much (in fact I've just delivered a job at 2:40 am).
Who can guarantee me that an outsoucer paying for get better translators won't ask me to reduce my rates in order to recover its money?

The truth is, I do want better paying clients. Unfortunatedly, none of my new clients came from Proz. Yeah, I'm aware that my language combinations English-Spanish and French-Spanish are very common. But I'm sure I'm a good translator, I do deserve better clients (not the ones that say "you are a nice girl", but those willing to pay me what my job is worth). Henry, do you really believe that your idea will help me?

Regards

Clarisa

[Editado a las 2006-09-21 06:13]
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Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 18:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Maybe try something new? Sep 21, 2006

Clarisa Moraña wrote:
The truth is, I do want better paying clients. Unfortunatedly, none of my new clients came from Proz. Yeah, I'm aware that my language combinations English-Spanish and French-Spanish are very common. But I'm sure I'm a good translator, I do deserve better clients (not the ones that say "you are a nice girl", but those willing to pay me what my job is worth). Henry, do you really believe that your idea will help me?

I can assure you that helping people in your situation is the point here. (It's our mission statement.) How successful we will be remains to be seen, of course.

I would encourage you to evaluate your marketing approach even apart from this, though. If it works, ProZ.com for Employers will help... but you shouldn't need it. There are plenty of people doing well, meeting good clients here, even now. It is true that there are many English-Spanish and French-Spanish translators, but it is also true that there are many English-Spanish and French-Spanish opportunities.

So maybe try something new. (A human profile photo?)
Who can guarantee me that an outsoucer paying for get better translators won't ask me to reduce my rates in order to recover its money?

No one. It is up to you to say no!

I think others here could tell you the picture need not be as bleak as you paint it... maybe they could offer you some advice privately...


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 18:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
We plan to look at enforcing some professional quoting practices. Sep 21, 2006

Larissa Dinsley wrote:
Henry wrote:
I'll make another post in more detail on this topic, since it is getting significant attention, but the market condition seems to be that additional exposure and tools to make the processes more efficient are commodities that some top companies--companies that take pride in their workforces--do not hesitate to pay for.

Thank you Henry. It would be very helpful to know more about the proposed tools and any implications to freelancers.

There are some unprofessional quoting practices that we may want to curb. For example, in our early days, there was a person who quoted in response to every single job posting, no matter which field or language (even Cree jobs, etc.) (He stopped when we started charging for the right to quote.) We are reserving the right to restrict such a person from quoting via PFE.

Another thing that happens sometimes is that quoters ignore clear instructions such as "absolutely do not call by phone". In such cases, they may inconvenience a job poster (for example, when that poster is blamed by colleagues for a large number of incoming calls on a shared line.)

In PFE, we plan to look at enforcing some professional quoting practices.

We have not considered enforcing any quality criteria.

Thanks for your interest, Larissa.


 
Yolande Haneder (X)
Yolande Haneder (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:44
German to French
+ ...
I really don't see the point... Sep 21, 2006

Why would an outsourcer pay a premium fee, have the possibility of being rejected (although he paid) just to have the chance to reach the translators he/she could have reached just by browsing the directories.

Making regulations about quoting is not applicable because you can't forbid people to send you unwanted e-mails or not respecting what you have written.

I think it is a good idea but as long as you are not taking a bit more responsability in clearing the mess (i.e
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Why would an outsourcer pay a premium fee, have the possibility of being rejected (although he paid) just to have the chance to reach the translators he/she could have reached just by browsing the directories.

Making regulations about quoting is not applicable because you can't forbid people to send you unwanted e-mails or not respecting what you have written.

I think it is a good idea but as long as you are not taking a bit more responsability in clearing the mess (i.e enforce some quality requirement from translators as well as you wish to enforce them from the outsourcer) there is no reason for the outsourcer to pay to be discriminated against.

You can make a blinking entry for those premium outsourcers but if it is not further as before reaching the targeted people (or too much of the not targeted), there is not point in it.

I hope at least that if you delete my post, you may get my point.
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Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 18:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Yolande Sep 21, 2006

Yolande Haneder wrote:

Why would an outsourcer pay a premium fee, have the possibility of being rejected (although he paid) just to have the chance to reach the translators he/she could have reached just by browsing the directories.

Making regulations about quoting is not applicable because you can't forbid people to send you unwanted e-mails or not respecting what you have written.

I think it is a good idea but as long as you are not taking a bit more responsability in clearing the mess (i.e enforce some quality requirement from translators as well as you wish to enforce them from the outsourcer) there is no reason for the outsourcer to pay to be discriminated against.

You can make a blinking entry for those premium outsourcers but if it is not further as before reaching the targeted people (or too much of the not targeted), there is not point in it.

It is not so complicated, really. The outsourcer gets more exposure, and more signal, with less noise. That beats the alternatives (newspaper ads, etc.) and is therefore valuable to outsourcers to the extent they value their time.

That's the idea. The proof is in the buying.
I hope at least that if you delete my post, you may get my point.

Sorry; if you want to have your post removed, you at least have to break a rule.


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:44
Member (2004)
English to Italian
I don't get it either... Sep 21, 2006

Henry wrote:


It is not so complicated, really. The outsourcer gets more exposure, and more signal, with less noise.


And a lot more quotes from unprofessionals attracted by the signal... unless you find a way of filtering unwanted candidates.

All the reputable companies and agencies have to do is to search professional translators institutes/associations/organisations' directories and this is what many do already, for free. These, at least, guarantee you a minimum of professionalism and that the job is done by a native. Why pay for a service which doesn't guarantee anything? Baffled...

Giovanni


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 18:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Maybe you are right, Giovanni Sep 21, 2006

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Henry wrote:
It is not so complicated, really. The outsourcer gets more exposure, and more signal, with less noise.

And a lot more quotes from unprofessionals attracted by the signal... unless you find a way of filtering unwanted candidates.

All the reputable companies and agencies have to do is to search professional translators institutes/associations/organisations' directories and this is what many do already, for free. These, at least, guarantee you a minimum of professionalism and that the job is done by a native. Why pay for a service which doesn't guarantee anything? Baffled...

What we are hearing from clients is that currently, there is no one thing (no membership or anything like it) that guarantees the quality of a translator's work. So they have to use their own qualification procedures no matter where they find people. What these clients want from us is more efficient access to *candidates*, and better tools to use in carrying out their own qualification procedures.

Maybe you are right, though: maybe this whole thing is just a pipe dream. We'll see.

If we are successful, maybe there will be some premium clients here to explain why they have invested in improved access to the services of our members. Then I won't have to speculate.


 
BelkisDV
BelkisDV  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:44
Spanish to English
+ ...
Good job! Sep 21, 2006

Salut Henry,

In my opinion it will work. In the U.S. Employment Agencies charge their clients for exactly what you've been doing for free all these years: screening.

In a way you've been screening translators through the use of KudoZ (yes, one's level of knowledge is clearly reflected by the quality of our answers), IDV, and other features.

Why would it benefit the outsourcer? Because the quality of the translation would be guaranteed (if not 100%, perha
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Salut Henry,

In my opinion it will work. In the U.S. Employment Agencies charge their clients for exactly what you've been doing for free all these years: screening.

In a way you've been screening translators through the use of KudoZ (yes, one's level of knowledge is clearly reflected by the quality of our answers), IDV, and other features.

Why would it benefit the outsourcer? Because the quality of the translation would be guaranteed (if not 100%, perhaps 95%, yes I'm coming up with these statistics myself).

You're giving serious companies a great opportunity to obtain quality translators, so why not get paid for it? If the Employment Agencies I mentioned above even charge their clients a percentage of the salary for different job levels (Administration jobs being at the top and entry-level jobs at the bottom) I don't see why you shouldn't either. 230,000 words (a contract that I was awarded by one of ProZ's outsourcers who contacted me after viewing my profile) will never compare to 1,000 words. By giving big corporations this opportunity we in turn will get more volume. The bigger they are, the more work they have for us.

Bravo

Regards,
Belkis
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Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 18:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Wong idea, Belkis Sep 21, 2006

Belkis Díaz-Vidaillet wrote:
Why would it benefit the outsourcer? Because the quality of the translation would be guaranteed (if not 100%, perhaps 95%, yes I'm coming up with these statistics myself).

Whoa! I like your enthusiasm, Belkis, but there are no guarantees that we can make with regard to quality. You have the wrong idea. (Or else I misinterpret your post.)


 
BelkisDV
BelkisDV  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:44
Spanish to English
+ ...
I know Sep 21, 2006

Henry wrote:

Belkis Díaz-Vidaillet wrote:
Why would it benefit the outsourcer? Because the quality of the translation would be guaranteed (if not 100%, perhaps 95%, yes I'm coming up with these statistics myself).

Whoa! I like your enthusiasm, Belkis, but there are no guarantees that we can make with regard to quality. You have the wrong idea. (Or else I misinterpret your post.)


It's just my enthusiasm, that's why I put I had come up with those figures myself.

Regards,


 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:44
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Let's hope so... Sep 22, 2006

Henry wrote:


If we are successful, maybe there will be some premium clients here to explain why they have invested in improved access to the services of our members. Then I won't have to speculate.


That would be interesting...

Giovanni


 
Andres & Leticia Enjuto
Andres & Leticia Enjuto  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:44
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Here's the reason why I think it should work Sep 22, 2006

Monika Coulson wrote:

There are a lot of corporations out there (Financial Institutions/Companies for example) that need translators to work for them. Usually, they pay for ads on several newspapers and other (e-)medias to find these translators.

By being a Premium outsourcer, they do not need to do that anymore: they can come to this pool of all-languages-translators (ProZ.com) and they can ask for all they need: at one stop shop.



This is just the reason why I think the new feature will work: time and money.

If these outsourcers get to understand that they can find translators in a quicker and perhaps more economical way than publishing ads and waiting for responses, then this will certainly work.

If they are already used to outsourcing here, then they would value the fact that they will not get 100 useless responses to their job postings.

And I do believe Proz.com staff and Mike in particular will do a good job in promoting this premium system.

After all, it would be a win-win-win solution!

Congrats to you Henry.

Best,
ANDRES


 
Walter Landesman
Walter Landesman  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 19:44
English to Spanish
+ ...
sounds good Sep 26, 2006

So far so good. Explanations given seem to make this a valuable feature.

Let`s wait and see how it works, and I hope it does.


 
Derek Gill Franßen
Derek Gill Franßen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:44
German to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Let's see what happens. Oct 2, 2006

Walter Landesman wrote:

So far so good. Explanations given seem to make this a valuable feature.

Let`s wait and see how it works, and I hope it does.


Walter's are my sentiments exactly. It sounds like an interesting plan (and I appreciate there being no new rules that apply to me). I also hope that it works out to ProZ's and all of our advantage.

Is there also perhaps a latent plan to increase the exposure of “premium” freelancers, i.e., those who have somehow distinguished themselves here on the site, e.g., through contributions to KudoZ, to these premium clients?

I would also like to add (for those who do not seem to believe it) that there are plenty well-paid jobs coming through. I, for one, am contacted by an average of at least one or two NEW CLIENTS EVERY WEEK who found me here on ProZ. I'm constantly amazed at how well the system works in this regard.

Keep up the great work!


 
BelkisDV
BelkisDV  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:44
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agree with last postings and explanation of previous statement. Oct 3, 2006

Dear colleagues,

Excuse me for posting twice, I wanted to say that I agree with Lettyb's concept: the new feature would be a 'shortcut' to valuable translation resources.

At this point I need to clear up my earlier comment about quality: there would be no implicit or explicit guarantees as to 1) the quality of the work nor 2) the outsourcer's project management/screening procedures. However; by paying xx fee(s), that would be a clear indication that the outsourcer is s
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Dear colleagues,

Excuse me for posting twice, I wanted to say that I agree with Lettyb's concept: the new feature would be a 'shortcut' to valuable translation resources.

At this point I need to clear up my earlier comment about quality: there would be no implicit or explicit guarantees as to 1) the quality of the work nor 2) the outsourcer's project management/screening procedures. However; by paying xx fee(s), that would be a clear indication that the outsourcer is serious about finding a ProfeZZional translator/
interpreter/language coach, etc. to fulfill their needs.

Regarding the subject of false or misleading credentials, that is the purpose of the '(credentials) confirmed' feature. You can claim to have a Master's degree in Translation/
Interpretation, but you best be ready to produce those transcripts for the staff to verify them, otherwise your 'claim' serves no purpose but misrepresenting yourself and degrading not only the profession but the Code of Conduct we should follow (I know it varies from country to country and institutions), not to mention ethics.

Again, excuse me for posting twice.

Best wishes, regards and success to all.

Belkis
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Marketing member services ("Project Connect"), part 3: Premium job postings






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