| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Bilingual babies Thread poster: Lucy Phillips
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Lucy Phillips 
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:23
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | good advice, GoodWords! | Apr 30, 2004 |
Wow, what a lot of interesting answers!
I think all the points raised have helped me - and I'm definitely leaning towards the idea that it will be very difficult (if not impossible) for me to resist speaking English to my daughter.
I would be particularly interesting in hearing more from people who spoke their native language to their child but introduced another langugage early on - linguistic theory has it that children can learn another language very easily before t... See more Wow, what a lot of interesting answers!
I think all the points raised have helped me - and I'm definitely leaning towards the idea that it will be very difficult (if not impossible) for me to resist speaking English to my daughter.
I would be particularly interesting in hearing more from people who spoke their native language to their child but introduced another langugage early on - linguistic theory has it that children can learn another language very easily before the age of 5.
GoodWords wrote:
Some experts say that a mother should talk to her baby in her (the mother's) own mother tongue. I agree with this for the following reasons.
You alluded to it when you mentioned your doubts, and said that you "have no experience of 'baby language' in Spanish." By talking to your baby in the language that you know most thoroughly and intimately, in all its nuances, and without any limitations, you will be helping your baby reach her full linguistic potential as she develops her language abilities. The advantages of this should compensate for any delay in introducing a second language.
You can support her learning Spanish later from family, and perhaps a Spanish-speaking nanny. Although no age is too early to begin exposure to a second (and third) language, you are the person she will be closest to and spending the most time with during the early years when she is learning about the world and language in general. You can best help her in this monumental and wonderful task by interacting with her in the language you know best.
Your mother tongue is the language of your heart; what could be more appropriate for a relationship that in some ways is the most intimate that you can ever experience?
[Edited at 2004-04-30 14:35] ▲ Collapse
| | | | sylvie malich (X)
Germany
Local time: 01:23
German to English
Lucy Phillips wrote:
... linguistic theory has it that children can learn another language very easily before the age of 5.
It's easy to generalise, but it all depends on the child. Some kids are "naturals", others have great difficulty. No two kids are alike.
In my experience the outside world had a geat influence on my child's attitude with *keeping* up the development. I recommend sending the child to a bi-language school. Peers making the same experiences in learning the partner language will help greatly.
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[Edited at 2004-06-13 15:20]
| | | | LuciaC
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:23
English to Italian
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| My two cents | Apr 30, 2004 |
>>I would be particularly interesting in hearing more from people who spoke their native language to their child but introduced another langugage early on - linguistic theory has it that children can learn another language very easily before the age of 5.
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| It can work just fine, even for non-natives | May 1, 2004 |
Lots of interesting points from all sides. I fully understand your concerns, we tried to do our research prior to baby's arrival, and ultimately found that all roads led to the Dr. Spock [of baby, not Vulcan fame] advice: trust your common sense.
Here's some practical experience.
Our son is now almost 2. Both my wife and I are Americans, and have lived in Germany since our son was 6 weeks old. Let's call my German neo-native (but definitely not native), my wife's is dec... See more Lots of interesting points from all sides. I fully understand your concerns, we tried to do our research prior to baby's arrival, and ultimately found that all roads led to the Dr. Spock [of baby, not Vulcan fame] advice: trust your common sense.
Here's some practical experience.
Our son is now almost 2. Both my wife and I are Americans, and have lived in Germany since our son was 6 weeks old. Let's call my German neo-native (but definitely not native), my wife's is decent. I talk with my son only in German, my wife only in English. At home the adults converse with each other in English, outside the home in German. In addition to 'the world around us,' he gets German from his babysitter and from his playgroup. Things will really pick up when he begins kindergarden (all German, of course) in august.
This all works wonderfully, he understands both languages perfectly and produces both without any trouble as well. After a period of some confusion (or indifference, hard to tell), he now distiguishes between English and German speakers and will address them only in the proper langauge. He does tend to learn German vocab first, perhaps because he has more chances to hear it from various people. He was a bit slow to talk generally, but we were informed that that is standard for bilingual children.
To those who worry that the child won't get 'native' experience in the second language in terms of songs and such, that depends largely on the willingness of the parent to go the extra mile. I got permission to observe our German friends interacting with their babies so as to learn the terms they use; not just baby-talk, but all of the equivalents to the simplest of things that parents say to their babies, which are not the same between languages. ('Good Job', for example, is often rendered 'So ist fein' or 'bravo' in German. This would not be how you'd ever express this during interactions with adults...) I then took the extra step of asking our German friends to observe my interactions with our son and let me know if the things I was saying sounded funny. And it did at first. After some correction on their parts and effort on my part, it no longer does. WARNING: all of this takes precious effort. It's not hard to keep up with it during the day, but at 3:42 am when you're awakened for the third time, switching back to a non-native language is not much fun. It was never too much, though, and if I can do it, you can too.
Oh yeah, and you'll buy several CDs of children's songs, and memorize them. Bizarre as it sounds, I can probably correctly sing more German lullabyes and children's songs than English ones, because I had to memorize the lyrics while introducing myself to them. Go figure.
Finally, to those who worry about bilingual kids not having the background in either language, that's poppycock. I've known scads of bilinguals; some have been excellent in both languages, some in one but not the other, some in neither. This seems to reflect almost entirely on background and personality. We all know even more monolinguals who don't understand the grammar of their own language to save their lives. My mom was a teacher; no big suprise that I turned out to be a book editor. Proper language was a focus.
Let me know if you have any other specific questions, I'd be glad to share the view from 'in the midst of it.' ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elizabeth Adams
United States
Local time: 16:23
Member (2002)
Russian to English
| trying to do the right thing... | May 1, 2004 |
I'm American, and my husband is Russian. We live in Moscow, so our nanny is Russian and all of our friends are, as well. So even though I know I should only speak English with our little boy according to the one parent one language theory, I speak Russian to him most of the time. Partly because I'm lazy and it's so hard to make myself think up cute things to say in English, but mostly because I don't like for people to stare at us on the street or ask me where we're from. I don't want Sergei to ... See more I'm American, and my husband is Russian. We live in Moscow, so our nanny is Russian and all of our friends are, as well. So even though I know I should only speak English with our little boy according to the one parent one language theory, I speak Russian to him most of the time. Partly because I'm lazy and it's so hard to make myself think up cute things to say in English, but mostly because I don't like for people to stare at us on the street or ask me where we're from. I don't want Sergei to feel like an outsider (although at 3 months old he feels just fantastic!). So I need to get my act together.
But about your situation, I guess all you can do is provide lots of interesting, fun opportunities for your kid that are connected to language. That's how my Dad taught me French - we went to plays, he got me tutors, books, movies, etc. Latin didn't work as well, though ▲ Collapse
| | | | invguy
Bulgaria
Local time: 02:23
English to Bulgarian
Lucy Phillips wrote:
I think all the points raised have helped me - and I'm definitely leaning towards the idea that it will be very difficult (if not impossible) for me to resist speaking English to my daughter.
I would be particularly interesting in hearing more from people who spoke their native language to their child but introduced another langugage early on - linguistic theory has it that children can learn another language very easily before the age of 5.
I guess I can relate to that.
My family is monolingual (Bulgarian). However, my mother was an expert teacher in French, and also a Ministry of Education counsellor in French language teaching. When my younger sister was born, my mother spoke basically Bulgarian to her - but consistently introduced her to French games, children's books, songs etc (starting from lullabys). So my sis knew since early age that French = Mom coming to play or read fairytales. Needless to say, she had all the necessary motivation, and more Before she went to school, she could speak French decently, as well as read a little, albeit - of course - not at native level. BTW she used to speak French to her puppets, and most of them had French names  ... her plush toys too, I still remember the big blue Jeannot lapin.
She then went to a French-language kindergarten, then on to study French in primary and secondary school, adding Russian and English at a later stage - but never wished to pursue a career in linguistics. Her uni degree and profession are in a completely different field, yet her French is truly fluent, by the estimate of native French speakers. Indeed, she has been frequently practicing it in her job and personal communications; she affirms, though, that this level of command wouldn't have been possible without the foundation given by mother's 'early play teaching' method. Then, I recall that at home there was always some interesting French reading, be it a book or a magazine - mother took care of that.
I presume you could use this approach, too, Lucy. It could be perfectly sufficient for your daughter to acquire a good *feel* of Spanish before she goes to school - I mean, making efficient use of those first 5 years. Afterwards she would only need a carefully steered language education, which you would obviously see to. At the same time such an approach would not require any artificiality in your communication, and your daughter would learn English just like the other kids. As far as I've taken my mother's idea, the trick is to 'draw the line' at the exact place, defining (in your case) Spanish as the fun language, and English - as the functional one. Of course they'd interweave to some extent, yet each language would have a clearly outlined application sphere, thus preventing confusion.
Obviously, this method would hardly ensure a 100% native-level command of Spanish at an early age. Nevertheless it could create all prerequisites for your daughter to be able to speak Spanish like a native after only a year or two spent in a Spanish-speaking environment later in her life. IMHO this seems to be a more realistic goal.
Sorry I can't give you more insight: I haven't experienced the process myself, I've only observed it. For various reasons, my mother could not devote as much time to me (language-wise) as she did later to my sister. Besides, my language studies went along non-Romance languages, that's why my French remained at working level only  ... to my mother's despair, she still considers it her personal fault. But oh well...
Hope this gives you an idea. I'm sure you'll find the right way to do what you have planned. I'd think it is more a matter of situation specifics and inner feeling than of ready formulas.
Best of luck, Lucy!
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Heinrich Pesch wrote:
...if you want her to learn Spanish. Or hire a granny. I would not want to spoil my to relation to my child by using a foreign language. Children can aquire second or third languages still in kindergarten or school, so I wouldn't wory about that too much.
I couldn't agree more (ok, I have no kids and I'm not bilingual, so I just give you my humble 2 cents). You can wait some years for your daughter to be bilingual, I would say she can learn Spanish from satellite tv, the Internet, friends etc., not necessarily from you.
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Lucy Phillips
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:23
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Thank you Invguy | May 3, 2004 |
Your sister's experience is a great encouragement to me - it seems to offer the most natural and practical way for me to give my daughter a linguistic headstart in a language that is very important to me (and hopefully will be useful to her too).
By the way, she will have another source of natural bilingualism - being spoken to and learning to speak Jamaican patois from my husband's side.
My family is monolingual (Bulgarian). However, my mother was an expert teacher in ... See more Your sister's experience is a great encouragement to me - it seems to offer the most natural and practical way for me to give my daughter a linguistic headstart in a language that is very important to me (and hopefully will be useful to her too).
By the way, she will have another source of natural bilingualism - being spoken to and learning to speak Jamaican patois from my husband's side.
My family is monolingual (Bulgarian). However, my mother was an expert teacher in French, and also a Ministry of Education counsellor in French language teaching. When my younger sister was born, my mother spoke basically Bulgarian to her - but consistently introduced her to French games, children's books, songs etc (starting from lullabys). So my sis knew since early age that French = Mom coming to play or read fairytales. Needless to say, she had all the necessary motivation, and more Before she went to school, she could speak French decently, as well as read a little, albeit - of course - not at native level. BTW she used to speak French to her puppets, and most of them had French names ... her plush toys too, I still remember the big blue Jeannot lapin.
She then went to a French-language kindergarten, then on to study French in primary and secondary school, adding Russian and English at a later stage - but never wished to pursue a career in linguistics. Her uni degree and profession are in a completely different field, yet her French is truly fluent, by the estimate of native French speakers. Indeed, she has been frequently practicing it in her job and personal communications; she affirms, though, that this level of command wouldn't have been possible without the foundation given by mother's 'early play teaching' method. Then, I recall that at home there was always some interesting French reading, be it a book or a magazine - mother took care of that. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anne Brackenborough (X)
Germany
Local time: 01:23
German to English
| cvaudry (X)
French to English
| I think that parents can go wrong....and excellent book | May 4, 2004 |
Hello
I am bringing up my little boy to be - I hope - bilingual (English/French). I cannot recommend the book "The bilingual family - A Handbook for parents" by Harding and Riley (Cambridge University Press) highly enough. I believe that if you take the decision to bring your child up to be bilingual, it is a serious decision and parents should be very careful as their child's language development is at stake. I know of a couple, French and English, who have three children. Both parents ... See more Hello
I am bringing up my little boy to be - I hope - bilingual (English/French). I cannot recommend the book "The bilingual family - A Handbook for parents" by Harding and Riley (Cambridge University Press) highly enough. I believe that if you take the decision to bring your child up to be bilingual, it is a serious decision and parents should be very careful as their child's language development is at stake. I know of a couple, French and English, who have three children. Both parents made an big effort to speak their respective language to their children, and not to swap from language to language during conversations, until child number three came along. They then became a little careless in what language they spoke, and did not follow any set "rule". Result, their youngest child, a little boy, had no idea what was English, what was French, could not make himself understood outside the family, and cried every single day for two months when he started school as nobody understood him. When I heard this from the father, I was shocked as I thought that bilingualism was somehow "acquired" just by virtue of being in a family where parents were of different nationalities. His story also scared me into doing a bit of reading - hence my recommendation of the Handbook which I think is truly excellent, full of good practical advice for example don't buy bilingual books for your child and what to do when the (monolingual) grandparents come to visit.... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Louise Mawbey
Germany
Local time: 01:23
Member (2006)
German to English
My husband and I are both English. Our son was born in Germany and my husband only ever spoke German to him even though he found it quite hard at the beginning. I spoke English to our son Jack all the time.
He is now 7 and can speak both languages fluently (but not always perfectly) and although it was not always easy there were never any real problems and we are so glad that we did it that way. As Jack is now fluent in both so my husband now usually speaks English with him.
<... See more My husband and I are both English. Our son was born in Germany and my husband only ever spoke German to him even though he found it quite hard at the beginning. I spoke English to our son Jack all the time.
He is now 7 and can speak both languages fluently (but not always perfectly) and although it was not always easy there were never any real problems and we are so glad that we did it that way. As Jack is now fluent in both so my husband now usually speaks English with him.
I don't think that the fact that you are not living in a Spanish speaking country will make it very much harder - I know other people who have made it work well.
My advice would be give it a go and above all, stick to your guns!
HTH,
Louise ▲ Collapse
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moken
Local time: 00:23
English to Spanish
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| What comes next? My son is now 2 1/2, seemingly so far so good. | May 7, 2004 |
Hi Claire, Lucy and all other colleagues
(Congratulations Lucy: your journey starts here! A roller-coaster ride to beat any amusement park and well worth the effort!)
I have a son of my own, Ivo. I myself was brought up bilingually, but have lived in Spain since my adolesence. Even though I have always spoken English both with family (brothers+sisters) and at work, I would say my Spanish is marginally better than my English. Just how good your second language is might p... See more Hi Claire, Lucy and all other colleagues
(Congratulations Lucy: your journey starts here! A roller-coaster ride to beat any amusement park and well worth the effort!)
I have a son of my own, Ivo. I myself was brought up bilingually, but have lived in Spain since my adolesence. Even though I have always spoken English both with family (brothers+sisters) and at work, I would say my Spanish is marginally better than my English. Just how good your second language is might prove important here. In my case, I think that the language of the country I am living in (Eng vs Span of course) will always have the upper hand.
I also chose to try to bring Ivo up bilingually. Similarly but in reverse to Lucy's case, everything around me lives, speaks and breathes Spanish. My partner is Spanish (she understands English but does not speak it well enough for it to be our "household" tongue). Ever since Ivo was born, I have spoken to him in English only - yes, Lucy, it was a struggle at the beginning, I felt strange since the terms of endearment I was familiar with from my own mother were Spanish...but this was onkly at the very start. You develop your own communication with your baby. Songs and stories? They come in books. Speaking from experience, I don't think you need worry.
An added advantage has been that, with U.S. culture being so dominant nowadays, DVD is a big advantage living in a non-English speaking country. It means you can get all your films/documentaries etc in English. I very much doubt however that this would be the case with Spanish if you live in the UK.
My own doubt starts here:
Ivo is now just over 2 1/2. he now understand everything (100%) I say to him in English, but he speaks to me in Spanish. His Spanish, to me and everyone else, is splashed with a few words of English (he uses them for colours, numbers above 2 and generally any word he has learnt from me and does not know in Spanish). As pointed out by Claire, he can get frustratedwhen people don't understand him, but he is very far from being a frustrated or unhappy baby at this stage.
However, he is now starting to understand the concept "English" and the concept "Spanish". I would like him to start using only English when speaking to me, but I am afraid of forcing him for the risk, which I have witnessed with another child, of making him loathe it.
What would people recommend I do at this point?
Do I keep on answering to anything he says in Spanish?
Do I insist he only tells me in English or just ignore him with the subsequent risk I just pointed out?
Do I convert to Buddhism?
Well Lucy, I hope that I have somehow helped with my own experience and I hope someone out there who is in our same situation but a little bit further down the road can provide some guidance!! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kimmy
Local time: 09:23
Italian to English
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| I too have a bilingual child (almost) | May 7, 2004 |
My daughter will be 3 in July and from birth I have always spoken to her in English (my mother tongue). Her father has always spoken to her in Italian as have her grandparents. We live in Italy and her grandparents look after her all day every day (weekends excluded) while we both work.
For this very reason her first language is Italian and although she understands perfectly everything in English, she is hesitant to talk it!
But, when we were in Australia last year, after only... See more My daughter will be 3 in July and from birth I have always spoken to her in English (my mother tongue). Her father has always spoken to her in Italian as have her grandparents. We live in Italy and her grandparents look after her all day every day (weekends excluded) while we both work.
For this very reason her first language is Italian and although she understands perfectly everything in English, she is hesitant to talk it!
But, when we were in Australia last year, after only 3 weeks she was speaking English more clearly and with a larger more invovled vocabulary.
So her choice of First language is obviously dictated by her immediate surroundings!
Her language skills in Italian are most definitely not lacking - although not quite 3, her command of Italian is unbelieveable!
Go for it! Try it! It certainly won't hurt. And don't worry if you can't speak Baby Spanish! What's that anyway?????
I never spoke baby talk to my child ever - personally can't stand it!
Good luck for the birth of your daughter and for your bilingual journey!
Kim ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lucy Phillips
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:23
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | I'm sure things will sort themselves out | May 7, 2004 |
Álvaro Blanch wrote:
My own doubt starts here:
Ivo is now just over 2 1/2. he now understand everything (100%) I say to him in English, but he speaks to me in Spanish. His Spanish, to me and everyone else, is splashed with a few words of English (he uses them for colours, numbers above 2 and generally any word he has learnt from me and does not know in Spanish). As pointed out by Claire, he can get frustratedwhen people don't understand him, but he is very far from being a frustrated or unhappy baby at this stage.
However, he is now starting to understand the concept "English" and the concept "Spanish". I would like him to start using only English when speaking to me, but I am afraid of forcing him for the risk, which I have witnessed with another child, of making him loathe it.
What would people recommend I do at this point?
Do I keep on answering to anything he says in Spanish?
Do I insist he only tells me in English or just ignore him with the subsequent risk I just pointed out?
Do I convert to Buddhism?
Well Lucy, I hope that I have somehow helped with my own experience and I hope someone out there who is in our same situation but a little bit further down the road can provide some guidance!!
In return for your helpful advice, Alvaro, perhaps I can offer some encouragement for your own situation. My cousin is English and married to a Spanish woman (who was brought up in England from about 10 years old). They brought both their children up bilingually and did experience some of the problems you discuss. Particularly frustrating at one point for my monolingual cousin was the fact that his son went through a phase of preferring to speak in Spanish (this in England) - which he doesn't understand.
Both children get strong input from Spanish and English relatives and spend time in both countries. Result, wonderful bilingual children who feel at home in both countries - and who speak both languages with ease, showing no particular preference.
It's not just 'bilingual' children who progress at different rates in their use of language - I know of worried monolingual parents whose kids were slow to start speaking. They've all turned out all right!
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