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Agency charging fees for payment - is this normal practice?
Thread poster: John Gamble
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:30
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
You don't really have a choice Apr 11, 2018

John Gamble wrote:
1). Is charging for payment, as described above, a standard practice within the translation industry?


No. However, it's a free world, and if your client wants to have a discount for him having to make extra effort to conform to your eccentricities (which, from his perspective, not accepting payment by cheque is), then that is his right. You are free not to work with him.

2). What would be the best way to arrange for overseas payments for translation work?


Try to accept as many different payment methods as possible, at least initially. Eventually you'll learn which ones are not worth the trouble.


 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:30
French to English
@Philippe Etienne @Asker Apr 11, 2018

No, I find it quite scandalous too. This huge agency is not alone in this, but is becoming increasingly known for this practice, and for good reason. Bear in mind that when you receive payments from overseas, you may face bank charges yourself. You also need to allow for fluctuating exchange rates. That is "penalty" enough, without this feeble greedy giant pennypinching with its outsources. I can only suggest you refuse outright.

I suspect this is the mega-agency who requires some
... See more
No, I find it quite scandalous too. This huge agency is not alone in this, but is becoming increasingly known for this practice, and for good reason. Bear in mind that when you receive payments from overseas, you may face bank charges yourself. You also need to allow for fluctuating exchange rates. That is "penalty" enough, without this feeble greedy giant pennypinching with its outsources. I can only suggest you refuse outright.

I suspect this is the mega-agency who requires some 20-30 documents to be filled in and submitted to be registered with them. Their payment policy is not detailed until you near the final stages. Then they suggest that they retain payment until a certain amount has been reached, in order to make the cost of paying you a little more economical. What an insult! They keep YOUR money? Multiplied by the number of outsourcers whose money they hold, they should be accountable to the freelancers for interest on those funds! Finally, note that as a Paypal client, they have rates that you and I can probably only ever dream of. Why on earth should you pay for them. Anyone who has done a teensy weensy bit of contract law knows about "equality of bargaining power". In this type of set-up, the inequality is as Philippe says, OUTRAGEOUS! (I don't usually shout and use capitals, but I find this type of practice abhorrent. You should avoid it like the plague).

P.S. @John. What do others do I such circumstances? I refuse to work with agencies who run their business this way. We all have costs and that is our own business. The agency is your client and their bank charges are their problem, not your responsibility, in any shape or form. Walk away.

[Edited at 2018-04-11 21:25 GMT]
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John Gamble
John Gamble  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:30
Swedish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you for replies. Apr 11, 2018

Hi,

Many thanks to all of you who answered my post - your advice is much appreciated. Sorry I haven't replied to each of you individually, but I've been out for most of the day and am catching up on emails now. I'll reply more fully later on, but for now I just wanted to post this general 'thank you'.

One of the things that annoyed me about this whole business is - as one of the replies correctly guessed - that I went through a lengthy business of returning paperwork
... See more
Hi,

Many thanks to all of you who answered my post - your advice is much appreciated. Sorry I haven't replied to each of you individually, but I've been out for most of the day and am catching up on emails now. I'll reply more fully later on, but for now I just wanted to post this general 'thank you'.

One of the things that annoyed me about this whole business is - as one of the replies correctly guessed - that I went through a lengthy business of returning paperwork to the agency, doing a test translation and negotiating a rate (negotiating downwards, but acceptable enough). Then, at the last minute, they mention the payment charges. It seems rather underhand and kind of makes me feel that they did not negotiate in good faith.

I'm not so sure now that I want to work for them, but I'll certainly look into the Transferwise option with a US bank that was mentioned.

Thanks again, and best wishes.

John
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John Gamble
John Gamble  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:30
Swedish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for info Apr 11, 2018

Marissa Aguayo Gavilano wrote:

Hi John,

Do you know if they would agree to make ACH payments to a US account? You can register with Transferwise and get a USD account with a US bank so that you can get direct payments from the US. That's what I do for US based clients. I'm also in the UK. You can then exchange the money into GBP and transfer it to your UK account at a better rate than your bank would give you for a wire transfer.

Marissa


Hi Marissa,

Thanks for your reply. That's very interesting and I'll look into it. I'd heard of Transferwise, but have not heard of ACH payments. Can you recommend an American bank? I've never dealt with any of them.

Regards,

John


 
John Gamble
John Gamble  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:30
Swedish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your reply. Apr 11, 2018

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

No, I find it quite scandalous too. This huge agency is not alone in this, but is becoming increasingly known for this practice, and for good reason. Bear in mind that when you receive payments from overseas, you may face bank charges yourself. You also need to allow for fluctuating exchange rates. That is "penalty" enough, without this feeble greedy giant pennypinching with its outsources. I can only suggest you refuse outright.

I suspect this is the mega-agency who requires some 20-30 documents to be filled in and submitted to be registered with them. Their payment policy is not detailed until you near the final stages. Then they suggest that they retain payment until a certain amount has been reached, in order to make the cost of paying you a little more economical. What an insult! They keep YOUR money? Multiplied by the number of outsourcers whose money they hold, they should be accountable to the freelancers for interest on those funds! Finally, note that as a Paypal client, they have rates that you and I can probably only ever dream of. Why on earth should you pay for them. Anyone who has done a teensy weensy bit of contract law knows about "equality of bargaining power". In this type of set-up, the inequality is as Philippe says, OUTRAGEOUS! (I don't usually shout and use capitals, but I find this type of practice abhorrent. You should avoid it like the plague).

P.S. @John. What do others do I such circumstances? I refuse to work with agencies who run their business this way. We all have costs and that is our own business. The agency is your client and their bank charges are their problem, not your responsibility, in any shape or form. Walk away.

[Edited at 2018-04-11 21:25 GMT]



Hi Nikki,

Thanks for your reply. You've described very accurately what actually happened, so I suspect you know which agency I've been dealing with. I guess I'd better not write the name here or I'll probably get sued....

Much as I don't like turning down the offer of work, I'm not happy about the way this was done, so I'll have to consider whether or not to take this arrangement any further.

Regards,

John


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:30
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I thought the OP was talking about his client charging him a fee for paying his invoice Apr 12, 2018

This has nothing to do with the fees charged by the financial institution involved or PayPal.

 
Philip Lees
Philip Lees  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 15:30
Greek to English
Say no Apr 12, 2018

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

What do others do I such circumstances? I refuse to work with agencies who run their business this way. We all have costs and that is our own business. The agency is your client and their bank charges are their problem, not your responsibility, in any shape or form. Walk away.


I agree. I have declined work from several affiliated agencies who use this payment "system", citing that as my reason. Plenty more fish in the sea. Make sure they know why you're turning them down. Maybe one day they'll get the message (not holding my breath).


 
Marissa Aguayo Gavilano
Marissa Aguayo Gavilano  Identity Verified
Peru
English to Spanish
+ ...
No need for additional bank Apr 12, 2018

John Gamble wrote:

Hi Marissa,

Thanks for your reply. That's very interesting and I'll look into it. I'd heard of Transferwise, but have not heard of ACH payments. Can you recommend an American bank? I've never dealt with any of them.

Regards,

John



Hi John,

When you sign up with Transferwise, you can open a US bank account through them thanks to their Borderless accounts. I actually have opened three accounts in USD, EUR and GBP. They will provide you with your bank details so that you can share these with your clients and get paid in these currencies without any issues.

ACH payment is the American equivalent of BACS payments. It's just a direct payment from one bank account to another in the same country. They usually take 24 hours or less to be executed.

Transferwise is also rolling out a physical debit card, starting with the UK. I'm testing it at the moment and it's great. You can just use your balance to pay instead of transferring all the money to your UK bank account to be able to spend it.

I've been using their services for a long time.

Best,

Marissa


 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
Jumping through hoops Apr 12, 2018

John Gamble wrote:

One of the things that annoyed me about this whole business is - as one of the replies correctly guessed - that I went through a lengthy business of returning paperwork to the agency, doing a test translation and negotiating a rate (negotiating downwards, but acceptable enough). Then, at the last minute, they mention the payment charges. It seems rather underhand and kind of makes me feel that they did not negotiate in good faith.



This is one of the ways in which companies induce translators to accept terms that may be hard to swallow initially. They get you to jump through a load of administrative hoops so that when they hit you with bad news, you'll be more willing to accept it, as you don't want to have wasted your time on the earlier stages of the process. If they had told you everything up front, working for them would have been a less attractive prospect, and you would have been more likely to walk away. You think you're going to get a reasonable deal at first, and then they gradually chip away through negotiation, fees and previously unmentioned extras until you end up with an amount that is much less than you initially expected. And unfortunately, many people are susceptible to these tactics and give more and more ground, thinking to themselves each time "well, it's just a little bit less than what I thought I was going to get..." So their pay gets closer and closer to zero, while the agency gets richer and richer!

If you sign up with them, I think you can expect more efforts to chip away at your rate in future, such as further haggling, announcements that they "require" all of their translators to cut their rate by a certain percentage due to "tough market conditions", etc.

[Edited at 2018-04-12 11:02 GMT]


 
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:30
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Say no Apr 12, 2018

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

No, I find it quite scandalous too. This huge agency is not alone in this, but is becoming increasingly known for this practice, and for good reason. Bear in mind that when you receive payments from overseas, you may face bank charges yourself. You also need to allow for fluctuating exchange rates. That is "penalty" enough, without this feeble greedy giant pennypinching with its outsources. I can only suggest you refuse outright.

I suspect this is the mega-agency who requires some 20-30 documents to be filled in and submitted to be registered with them. Their payment policy is not detailed until you near the final stages. Then they suggest that they retain payment until a certain amount has been reached, in order to make the cost of paying you a little more economical. What an insult! They keep YOUR money? Multiplied by the number of outsourcers whose money they hold, they should be accountable to the freelancers for interest on those funds! Finally, note that as a Paypal client, they have rates that you and I can probably only ever dream of. Why on earth should you pay for them. Anyone who has done a teensy weensy bit of contract law knows about "equality of bargaining power". In this type of set-up, the inequality is as Philippe says, OUTRAGEOUS! (I don't usually shout and use capitals, but I find this type of practice abhorrent. You should avoid it like the plague).

P.S. @John. What do others do I such circumstances? I refuse to work with agencies who run their business this way. We all have costs and that is our own business. The agency is your client and their bank charges are their problem, not your responsibility, in any shape or form. Walk away.

[Edited at 2018-04-11 21:25 GMT]


I agree, just say no. I have declined work from several agencies for this reason. Coincidentally, they also happen to be those who impose an enormous amount of red tape…


 
John Gamble
John Gamble  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:30
Swedish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks - will look into this Apr 12, 2018

Marissa Aguayo Gavilano wrote:

John Gamble wrote:

Hi Marissa,

Thanks for your reply. That's very interesting and I'll look into it. I'd heard of Transferwise, but have not heard of ACH payments. Can you recommend an American bank? I've never dealt with any of them.

Regards,

John



Hi John,

When you sign up with Transferwise, you can open a US bank account through them thanks to their Borderless accounts. I actually have opened three accounts in USD, EUR and GBP. They will provide you with your bank details so that you can share these with your clients and get paid in these currencies without any issues.

ACH payment is the American equivalent of BACS payments. It's just a direct payment from one bank account to another in the same country. They usually take 24 hours or less to be executed.

Transferwise is also rolling out a physical debit card, starting with the UK. I'm testing it at the moment and it's great. You can just use your balance to pay instead of transferring all the money to your UK bank account to be able to spend it.

I've been using their services for a long time.

Best,

Marissa


Hi Marissa,

Thanks for that information - very interesting. It sounds like exactly what I need, so I'll look into opening an account with Transferwise.

Regards,

John


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:30
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Dump Apr 12, 2018

John Gamble wrote:

--they will make a charge for doing so if the payment is by bank transfer or Paypal. The charges are $20 for each bank transfer, or $10 for each Paypal transfer. Cheques are free, but then my UK bank would make charges for that.


Dump them and move on. Do it today. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.

[Edited at 2018-04-12 13:16 GMT]


 
John Gamble
John Gamble  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:30
Swedish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your reply. Apr 15, 2018

Tom in London wrote:

John Gamble wrote:

--they will make a charge for doing so if the payment is by bank transfer or Paypal. The charges are $20 for each bank transfer, or $10 for each Paypal transfer. Cheques are free, but then my UK bank would make charges for that.


Dump them and move on. Do it today. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.

[Edited at 2018-04-12 13:16 GMT]


Thanks for your reply, Tom. I've decided to decline the offer of work from this company.

Regards,

John


 
Lian Pang
Lian Pang  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:30
Member (2018)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Careful, it might be a scam. Apr 15, 2018

In my practice I mainly use Paypal for oversea transfers. And as a service provider, Paypal charges me for receiving payments. Sometimes the agencies will cover the commission for me by sending a little extra money.

I have never heard or encountered any agency charges as much as 10$ per paypal payment. That's just strange. I suggest you do some further investigation on the legitimacy of this agency.

If the charge is a one-off fixed thing for a project over, say, 1000
... See more
In my practice I mainly use Paypal for oversea transfers. And as a service provider, Paypal charges me for receiving payments. Sometimes the agencies will cover the commission for me by sending a little extra money.

I have never heard or encountered any agency charges as much as 10$ per paypal payment. That's just strange. I suggest you do some further investigation on the legitimacy of this agency.

If the charge is a one-off fixed thing for a project over, say, 1000 dollars, then I guess you can consider it. But if it's written in the contract that for EVERY paypal payment you will be charged 10$, I suggest you investigate and contact their head office, or simply get away from this agency.

It might be a scam. You never know.
Collapse


 
Tomo Olson
Tomo Olson  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 09:30
Japanese to English
About transferwise Apr 15, 2018

Marissa Aguayo Gavilano wrote:

Hi John,

Do you know if they would agree to make ACH payments to a US account? You can register with Transferwise and get a USD account with a US bank so that you can get direct payments from the US. That's what I do for US based clients. I'm also in the UK. You can then exchange the money into GBP and transfer it to your UK account at a better rate than your bank would give you for a wire transfer.

Marissa


I thought you couldn't get a bank account without providing the bank with proof of residence? The borderless banking feature must be the key to bypass the residency issue. I get paid via PayPal from a Japanese agency (with a huge fee by PayPal) because I don't live in Japan and I do not have a bank account in Japan they can transfer money to. I will look into transferwise and see if it can help me also.

[Edited at 2018-04-15 15:41 GMT]


 
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Agency charging fees for payment - is this normal practice?







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