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Rates for post editing machine translation texts
Thread poster: Blanca Amoroso
John Fossey
John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 13:07
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Be careful Jan 5, 2012

Blanca Amoroso wrote:
Could someone let me know the usual rates for post editing machine translation texts?
Any idea? I have been asked but I have no idea.


Be careful. Post-editing MT texts is quite different from post-editing human translations. The MT translation can have completely incorrect twists of language which can be easy to miss without great care. Depending on the language pair it can take as much time to "post-edit" MT as to retranslate it from scratch.

Some of my favourites in French - English are...

ne.... que translated as "not" instead of "only"
sentence translated as "peine" instead of "phrase" or vice-versa

Personally, I decline to post-edit machine translations.

[Edited at 2012-01-05 13:40 GMT]


 
Aurora Humarán
Aurora Humarán  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:07
English to Spanish
Against post-editing for others Jan 5, 2012

John Fossey wrote:
Personally, I decline to post-edit machine translations.

[Edited at 2012-01-05 13:40 GMT]


Ditto. My plan is not to teach a machine how to replace me.

I might (MIGHT) use it for my own benefit (buying Systran, por example), but that would not enlarge anybody else's machine/pockets, but my own; and the obvious: the profession will not be hurt by an increasingly powerful competitor (fed by... myself?).

Online MT is totally out of question, of course. With or without a signed NDA, we are not allowed to upload our client's documents to Google and similar online MTs.

Have a nice day!

Au

[Edited at 2012-01-05 14:59 GMT]


 
Blanca Amoroso
Blanca Amoroso  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:07
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you! Jan 5, 2012

Thanks a lot for your interesting feedback. I have a clear idea now.
I will definitely charge by the hour should the end client decide to use MT.

Best regards,
Blanca


 
Alexander Onishko
Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Russian to English
+ ...
* Jan 5, 2012

Blanca Amoroso wrote:

Hello,

Could someone let me know the usual rates for post editing machine translation texts?
Any idea? I have been asked but I have no idea.

Thanks a lot!

Kind regards,
Blanca


"Post editing machine translation texts" is not a type work appropriate for the master. Therefore, I always reject all such proposals with disgust.

It would be good if all translators had due respect for their own work.

Remember the Luddites!

[Zmieniono 2012-01-05 22:13 GMT]


Hussein Abd-Elatif
 
Germaine
Germaine  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 13:07
English to French
+ ...
Let's take a look at it... Jan 5, 2012

Sheila Wilson wrote:

...occasionally you see a sentence (even two) that is amazingly good. However, most will need some work and some will be completely unintelligible. But I've only had experience of the main free MT programs - others could be better. Or worse.


I selected a couple of sentences and feed them to various translation sites (http://www.lexilogos.com/anglais_traduction.htm# will give you instant access to six of them for English-French). It's something to do when you feel depressed or sad. Complex sentences will sort the most hilarious results (save your life: NEVER accept a "MTed" legal document), but even simple ones may surprise you.

Bianca, allow me to use your last comment:

Thanks a lot for your interesting feedback... I will definitely charge by the hour should the end client decide to use MT.

(Reverso) Merci beaucoup pour votre retour d'information intéressant… Je facturerai(chargerai) certainement à l'heure devrait le client de fin décider d'utiliser MT.

(Systran, Worldlingo and Yahoo!) Merci beaucoup de votre rétroaction intéressante…Je chargerai certainement à l'heure si le client d'extrémité décide d'employer la TA.

(Promt) Merci beaucoup pour votre réaction intéressante… Je facturerai sans aucun doute à l'heure devrait le client de fin décider d'utiliser MT.

(Linguatec) : Merci beaucoup pour votre remarque intéressante… Je chargerai certainement d'ici l'heure le client de la fin, devrait-il décider d'utiliser br de MT. de br/ > de

And the summum (a wink to Polyglot concerning the trend):

(Google) Merci beaucoup pour vos commentaires intéressants… Je vais certainement payer à l'heure si le client final décident d'utiliser MT.

Edited to add:

As for the human version (Marina, you're right!), I would have translated: "Merci beaucoup pour vos judicieux commentaires. Je proposerai sûrement un tarif horaire si le client décide de recourir à la TA."

This said, after running some tests with easy to complex sentences, I am impressed with the intense level of attention required to achieve the post-editing and I totally understand Vladimir when he talks about exhaustion. You cannot simply read: you have to check everything to the comma. Personally, I'm pretty sure that after one hour, my eyes would spin and my keyboard ask for mercy. Post-editing MT certainly is not a work justifying any rebate whatsoever.

[Edited at 2012-01-06 20:54 GMT]


Tania Vaillant Amaro Marins Cortez
 
Marina Steinbach
Marina Steinbach
United States
Local time: 13:07
Member (2011)
English to German
Something's missing... Jan 5, 2012

Germaine wrote:

(Reverso) Merci beaucoup pour votre retour d'information intéressant… Je facturerai(chargerai) certainement à l'heure devrait le client de fin décider d'utiliser MT.

(Systran, Worldlingo et Yahoo!) Merci beaucoup de votre rétroaction intéressante…Je chargerai certainement à l'heure si le client d'extrémité décide d'employer la TA.

(Promt) Merci beaucoup pour votre réaction intéressante… Je facturerai sans aucun doute à l'heure devrait le client de fin décider d'utiliser MT.

(Linguatec) : Merci beaucoup pour votre remarque intéressante… Je chargerai certainement d'ici l'heure le client de la fin, devrait-il décider d'utiliser br de MT. de br/ > de

Et le summum (clin d'oeil à Polyglot pour la tendance!):

(Google) Merci beaucoup pour vos commentaires intéressants… Je vais certainement payer à l'heure si le client final décident d'utiliser MT.


What would you have written, Germaine?

Have a nice evening!

Marina

[Edited at 2012-01-05 22:59 GMT]


 
Blanca Amoroso
Blanca Amoroso  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:07
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Did I say it was appropriate? Jan 5, 2012

Alexander Onishko wrote:

Blanca Amoroso wrote:

Hello,

Could someone let me know the usual rates for post editing machine translation texts?
Any idea? I have been asked but I have no idea.

Thanks a lot!

Kind regards,
Blanca


"Post editing machine translation texts" is not a type work appropriate for the master. Therefore, I always reject all such proposals with disgust.

It would be good if all translators had due respect for their own work.

Remember the Luddites!

[Zmieniono 2012-01-05 22:13 GMT]


Alexander,

This is a client we have had for so many years and who is assessing the possibility of having MT to save some money. With my answer, they will understand they will have problems and no savings should they decide to go with it. I think you shouldn't generalize. I don't like the idea of being questioned just for asking a question in a forum....

[Edited at 2012-01-05 23:04 GMT]


 
Philippe Etienne
Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 18:07
Member
English to French
Usual MT-bashing Jan 6, 2012

Blanca, I don't think Aleksander was being uncourteous to you: he expressed a common feeling among some top-notch translators who believe that MT post-editing assignments can only be accepted by sub-humans unworthy of being part of the Guild of Translators.
Alexander Onishko wrote:
"Post editing machine translation texts" is not a type work appropriate for the master. Therefore, I always reject all such proposals with disgust.

It would be good if all translators had due respect for their own work.

Remember the Luddites!

So to put it bluntly, you despise people (including me) who are paid for post-editing MT. Although you probably have never assessed MT output in languages other than those you know, never actually post-edited appropriate projects where MT is most efficient and never researched about MT and its limitations.
I don't blame you, translation is a diverse world and one cannot know it all. Can you?

As far as I am concerned, I don't despise anti-MT Great Masters: they are entitled to live, and I lead my business as profitably as I can without taking much notice about their chanting. As regards the "respect" bit, I don't have to have respect for my work, my clients do for me, thank you.

I have been lucky (and open-minded) enough to accept proper MT post-editing projects from agencies. I regret to say that they didn't make me upset or bitter about MT. And as you know, long-run offers worth a few thousand euros each time (as is always the case with "serious" MT projects) are always worth considering carefully.
So if an offer for MT post-editing comes along, I'll assess how sensible it is for my business to accept it and how "fit-for-purpose" MT is, because I have some experience in suitably prepared MT post-editing projects and an idea about how they should be managed and prepared upstream.

While in disagreement with your opinion of translators prepared to post-edit MT, I am sure we will both agree that MT (even post-edited) will certainly never replace translators and that MT post-edited text will generally not look like human translation.
Vladimir Hoffman wrote:
...Boring, ungratifying and repetitive works make me much more exhausted than common translations...

Which is why my resulting hourly rate for MT post-editing is generally higher than for my conventional translation assignments. Like weekend or overnight work, MT post-editing projects are not the kind of jobs I desperately seek, so I expect to be compensated for the associated trouble/boredom.

Philippe


 
Blanca Amoroso
Blanca Amoroso  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:07
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Use of language Jan 6, 2012

Philippe Etienne wrote:

Blanca, I don't think Aleksander was being uncourteous to you: he expressed a common feeling among some top-notch translators who believe that MT post-editing assignments can only be accepted by sub-humans unworthy of being part of the Guild of Translators.
Alexander Onishko wrote:
"Post editing machine translation texts" is not a type work appropriate for the master. Therefore, I always reject all such proposals with disgust.

It would be good if all translators had due respect for their own work.

Remember the Luddites!

So to put it bluntly, you despise people (including me) who are paid for post-editing MT. Although you probably have never assessed MT output in languages other than those you know, never actually post-edited appropriate projects where MT is most efficient and never researched about MT and its limitations.
I don't blame you, translation is a diverse world and one cannot know it all. Can you?

As far as I am concerned, I don't despise anti-MT Great Masters: they are entitled to live, and I lead my business as profitably as I can without taking much notice about their chanting. As regards the "respect" bit, I don't have to have respect for my work, my clients do for me, thank you.

I have been lucky (and open-minded) enough to accept proper MT post-editing projects from agencies. I regret to say that they didn't make me upset or bitter about MT. And as you know, long-run offers worth a few thousand euros each time (as is always the case with "serious" MT projects) are always worth considering carefully.
So if an offer for MT post-editing comes along, I'll assess how sensible it is for my business to accept it and how "fit-for-purpose" MT is, because I have some experience in suitably prepared MT post-editing projects and an idea about how they should be managed and prepared upstream.

While in disagreement with your opinion of translators prepared to post-edit MT, I am sure we will both agree that MT (even post-edited) will certainly never replace translators and that MT post-edited text will generally not look like human translation.
Vladimir Hoffman wrote:
...Boring, ungratifying and repetitive works make me much more exhausted than common translations...

Which is why my resulting hourly rate for MT post-editing is generally higher than for my conventional translation assignments. Like weekend or overnight work, MT post-editing projects are not the kind of jobs I desperately seek, so I expect to be compensated for the associated trouble/boredom.

Philippe


Philippe,

I really appreciate your concern in making me understand your point of view, but as a translator, I think the way you say things says it all. If Alexander had just told us his impressions about MT being demeaning for translators, etc. etc. (which I totally agree) it would have been ok, but he directly quoted me and talked about "respect", even though this is disguised by saying "all translators". So if he didn't intend to offend anyone, he wasn't successful... You cannot make general assertions like this one if you don't know why this person posed the question. In my case, this is a client we have had for many years and who's assessing the possibility of using MT to have some savings, so I needed to have some ideas on rates to tell him and have him think about what he could do, although honestly I don't think he decides to use it. I have never accepted MT assignments for the reasons above expressed by the rest of colleagues. Besides, the question clearly states I needed to know how to charge for this type of work, I'm not asking if this is appropriate or not...

Thank you for your feedback. On my side, this topic is closed.
Again, thank you everybody for your feedback and interesting ideas.

Kindest regards,
Blanca


 
Bruno De Myttenaere
Bruno De Myttenaere  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 18:07
Member (2010)
Dutch to French
+ ...
Thanks to all for your comments Feb 23, 2016

I was just asked about a 60,000 words post-editing job and replied that it is something I'm not interested in...but also wondered whether I should step in and which rate to apply. But after reviewing this forum, I am quite sure that I will not loose my time and money in post-editing jobs...;o)
Cheers,
Bruno


 
John Fossey
John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 13:07
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Four years later.... Feb 23, 2016

Interesting that this topic resurfaces after four years.

Has anything changed? Four years later on you would expect the MT technology to have advanced light-years ahead by now.

From anything I've seen, the same issues seem to remain.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:07
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Funny, that Feb 23, 2016

John Fossey wrote:
Has anything changed? Four years later on you would expect the MT technology to have advanced light-years ahead by now.

I think according to the timeline of the doomsayers from back then the human-translation industry was due to be swept away by a tsunami of super-next-generation MT some time in, oh, early 2015.

Or, er, not, as the case may be.

Dan


 
Inga Petkelyte
Inga Petkelyte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 17:07
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Nice Feb 23, 2016

John Fossey wrote:

Interesting that this topic resurfaces after four years.

Has anything changed? Four years later on you would expect the MT technology to have advanced light-years ahead by now.

From anything I've seen, the same issues seem to remain.


A nice observation. The only change i see is that maybe more of us have been proposed such jobs. I laways refuse. In fact, I translate from scratch much faster than do such editing.


Min Fang
 
Mirko Mainardi
Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:07
Member
English to Italian
Figures Feb 23, 2016

John Fossey wrote:

Has anything changed?


I guess that in order to answer that question we would need hard data about the evolution of the market share for MT-PE compared to the total size of the translation market... (if someone does have such data, then please do share)

In my opinion, the MT market share is expanding, but it's just that, an opinion (based on sparse anecdotal evidence.)


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:07
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Agree that it's growing Feb 23, 2016

Mirko Mainardi wrote:
In my opinion, the MT market share is expanding, but it's just that, an opinion (based on sparse anecdotal evidence.)

This is guesswork, because we have no real data, but I imagine it's taking share at the low-end - people making poor translations from a second language into another second language - and also creating markets where none existed before.

For example, I use Google Translate to read the German-language posts on the Zahlungspraxis mailing list. Is it perfect? No. It's suprisingly imperfect when you consider that DE-EN is a major language pair and that they're broadly speaking in the same linguistic family. But it is very useful for gisting.

If Google Translate did not exist, would I instead have hired a translator to translate and summarise the posts on the mailing list? Never. So, because of the cost element, MT makes possible some things that would not be possible with humans, even though human translators may still do it better.

Dan


 
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Rates for post editing machine translation texts







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