| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | English grammar Thread poster: Jolanda Teuniss
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Lianne van de Ven 
United States
Local time: 08:35
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| It might depend on your age | Feb 13, 2017 |
Toon Theuwis wrote: Then you should watch this hilarious video. People in The Netherlands are being interviewed by an alleged BBC journalist who wants to know "how it comes that the Dutch speak so well English"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-S_XbHQw9I
"We were in London...."
Not sure if this is hilarious or painful.
At any rate, I think of and to both work, depending on the meaning/nuance (but I am not a native, just have been living in the US for 20+ years now).
Generally, I would say that "to" appears stronger and sloganish, possibly more spoken language, although respective searches "great start of the day" and "great start to the day" along with breakfast without quotes show barely any difference (326,000 versus 347,000). "To" seems to make the breakfast serve a purpose (to the day), while "of" allows more savo(u)ring of that breakfast itself. It looks like I agree with the explanations in mairaw's link. You do say "great start to life" and not "great start of life"...
[Edited at 2017-02-13 21:24 GMT]
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 14:35
French to English
| The race was delayed | Feb 14, 2017 |
Lianne van de Ven wrote:
respective searches "great start of the day" and "great start to the day" along with breakfast without quotes show barely any difference (326,000 versus 347,000). [Edited at 2017-02-13 21:24 GMT]
Back in the day, that would have been a valid point. However I noticed that many instances of "start of the day" seemed to be foreign in origin. There's so much Dinglish and Chinglish and franglais out there now as to make the number of Google hits irrelevant nowadays.
Tony M wrote:
One can to some extent understand this if you consider that we would indeed say "The start of the race was delayed..." where 'start-of-the-race' this time is indeed a perfectly valid subject noun group.
That would be correct, but I'm pretty sure that speaking naturally, I would just say that the race was delayed. It's not as if they managed to then finish the race on time.
| | | | B D Finch
France
Local time: 14:35
French to English
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| Convince your client that they are wrong | Feb 14, 2017 |
I think that my vague memories of learning German in school point to an answer that might win your argument for you. Tell your client that "the day" in your sentence, has to be preceded by a dative case preposition, not a genetive case one. Now, it is true that English grammar has long ceased to be dominated by Germanic rules, but you don't have to tell your client that. I do think that this explanation is correct, in spite of the fact that hardly any native speakers of English know about or hav... See more I think that my vague memories of learning German in school point to an answer that might win your argument for you. Tell your client that "the day" in your sentence, has to be preceded by a dative case preposition, not a genetive case one. Now, it is true that English grammar has long ceased to be dominated by Germanic rules, but you don't have to tell your client that. I do think that this explanation is correct, in spite of the fact that hardly any native speakers of English know about or have even heard of genetive and dative cases, but we do have a feeling for the language that your client obviously doesn't and we don't refer to grammar books before speaking.
I find it quite amusing to see the way some non-native speakers of English tie themselves up in knots trying to tell us how to speak our own language. "Breakfast is a good start OF the day" is not merely "uncommon", it is WRONG!
[Edited at 2017-02-14 15:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 14:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| I would have ... | Feb 14, 2017 |
... any Dutch people I've met have had superb English, and I was told it was because for years now all films and series in English have been screened in original version with Dutch subtitles, which is so simple and so clever because they get it from an early age.
BUT - they all seem to have one mistake in common and I think it must be due to some aspect of Nederlands grammar, so please spread the word to make it perfect:
It is not: "If I would have a Jaguar, I wo... See more ... any Dutch people I've met have had superb English, and I was told it was because for years now all films and series in English have been screened in original version with Dutch subtitles, which is so simple and so clever because they get it from an early age.
BUT - they all seem to have one mistake in common and I think it must be due to some aspect of Nederlands grammar, so please spread the word to make it perfect:
It is not: "If I would have a Jaguar, I would drive it up and down the road all day in front of the Jones's house just to annoy them."
It is: "If I HAD a Jaguar, I would drive it up and down the road all day in front of the Jones's house just to annoy them."
In fact, the combination of words in English "If I would have ... (+ anything at all)" is never ever possible.
... Cue loads of posts to prove me wrong. But I don't think I am. I'm like that.
[Edited at 2017-02-14 15:26 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 14:35
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... any Dutch people I've met have had superb English, and I was told it was because for years now all films and series in English have been screened in original version with Dutch subtitles, which is so simple and so clever because they get it from an early age.
BUT - they all seem to have one mistake in common and I think it must be due to some aspect of Nederlands grammar, so please spread the word to make it perfect:
It is not: "If I would have a Jaguar, I would drive it up and down the road all day in front of the Jones's house just to annoy them."
It is: "If I HAD a Jaguar, I would drive it up and down the road all day in front of the Jones's house just to annoy them."
In fact, the combination of words in English "If I would have ... (+ anything at all)" is never ever possible.
... Cue loads of posts to prove me wrong. But I don't think I am. I'm like that.
[Edited at 2017-02-14 15:26 GMT]
And ananas, how do you pronounce ananas in English?
That guy reminded me of Ali G character so much, the ultimate troll.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 14:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
... "pineapple", I believe. But the Ali G/Sacha Baron Cohen thing is way above my head.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 14:35
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... "pineapple", I believe. But the Ali G/Sacha Baron Cohen thing is way above my head.
The people in the video kept saying/confirming it's "a-na-nas" Hilarious how he's leading them on.
Actually in my country too we are exposed to original English shows with Croatian subtitles, however, I don't think the language is THAT widely spoken as it is among the Dutch. One reason may be that English is Germanic language like Dutch thus easier picked by the Dutch, unlike Croatian which is another language family.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 14:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Oh, right ... | Feb 14, 2017 |
... I hadn't seen the video. It broke my klomp, certainly. Although now I think about it, I have a feeling it was mentioned in the krant last week.
I had a feeling the Dutch weren't the only ones to have that idea, too.
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MollyRose
United States
Local time: 07:35
English to Spanish
+ ...
"Breakfast is a good way to start the day" sounds much better. I don't think I would ever say it either of the two ways suggested. Maybe I would say, "Breakfast is a good start FOR the day." (for having a better day because now you're nourished).
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 14:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Odd prepositions | Feb 15, 2017 |
There was a British ad a long time ago, by the Dairy Board or something, and it was a man astride a huge egg like it was a motorbike, and the caption was "Go to work on an egg". Now, you can get three separate meanings out of that one, "on an egg".
And it's true - I've just been to work on an egg as a good start to the day, and therefore I'm going to work on an egg, except I won't actually be propelled to work on an egg. Not because it's in the garage having its yolk looked at or a... See more There was a British ad a long time ago, by the Dairy Board or something, and it was a man astride a huge egg like it was a motorbike, and the caption was "Go to work on an egg". Now, you can get three separate meanings out of that one, "on an egg".
And it's true - I've just been to work on an egg as a good start to the day, and therefore I'm going to work on an egg, except I won't actually be propelled to work on an egg. Not because it's in the garage having its yolk looked at or anything but because, like just about everyone else here, going to work simply means going to a different room in the house.
Thank God, too - being self-employed might be a drag and a curse sometimes, but I'm reminded how dire a real live job can be when I occasionally have to take the metro or bus early in the morning for non-work stuff. Next time you get a little down about it all, just get properly dressed, go out into the driving rain and take public transport for half an hour. You'll come back and zip through 5K of the worst kind of blaargh by lunch time while listening to the radio. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:35
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam
I would stress it on the last syllable but only because I know it from other languages. Many English speakers, including BBC commentators, make a habit of stressing foreign names wrongly.
Maria SharApova got so used to hearing her name mispronounced SharapOva that she became quite reconciled to it, but I doubt if GorbachOv was happy to hear himself called GOrbachov. The BBC has a "Pronunciation unit" (probably pronounced "PronunSIashon unit") but it doesn't seem to have much impact.
... See more I would stress it on the last syllable but only because I know it from other languages. Many English speakers, including BBC commentators, make a habit of stressing foreign names wrongly.
Maria SharApova got so used to hearing her name mispronounced SharapOva that she became quite reconciled to it, but I doubt if GorbachOv was happy to hear himself called GOrbachov. The BBC has a "Pronunciation unit" (probably pronounced "PronunSIashon unit") but it doesn't seem to have much impact.
I one heard a Professor Bogorov mentioned on Moscow radio (stress on the last syllable). An unstressed "o" is pronounced like an "a" in Russian, and it occurred to me that anyone asking him his name in English might take the reply as an impolite request for immediate departure.
[Edited at 2017-02-15 09:27 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | François Hollande | Feb 15, 2017 |
Jack's comment about the mispronunciation of names on TV reminded me that when François Hollande first came to prominence in France, newsreaders had the greatest difficulty with it, usually sounding the "s" at the end of François in the mistaken belief that an illision was necessary and calling the proudly macho French President "Françoise". They seem to have got the hang of it at last, but it's almost too late now ...
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 14:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| "If I would have" | Feb 15, 2017 |
Inevitably, it's been brought to my attention that you can actually say "if I would have", but it's a grey area, and "if" in the following sentence isn't a conditional, and should really be "whether":
"I wondered IF I WOULD HAVE DONE the same thing again."
Glad that's been cleared up.
| | | | | It's not about "why" but "how" | Feb 16, 2017 |
Can’t say anything about the English grammar (not my language), but in Spanish many people ask me why we say “se lo compré A a mi amigo” (I bought it from my friend) rather than “se lo compré DE mi amigo”. I don’t know and I don’t bother to know. The important thing is that we say “se lo compré a mi amigo” and not the other way. It’s not about “why”. Rather, it’s more about “how”.
I think foreign language learners need to be more modest. If a native ... See more Can’t say anything about the English grammar (not my language), but in Spanish many people ask me why we say “se lo compré A a mi amigo” (I bought it from my friend) rather than “se lo compré DE mi amigo”. I don’t know and I don’t bother to know. The important thing is that we say “se lo compré a mi amigo” and not the other way. It’s not about “why”. Rather, it’s more about “how”.
I think foreign language learners need to be more modest. If a native speaker (who is at the same time a linguist and professional translator) tells them it’s that way, well, then it’s that way.
The other day I had to convince an end client of my customer about the appropriateness of using inverted exclamation marks in the Spanish language, and that it had nothing to do with the letter “i”. Again, it’s more about “how” than “why”. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I learned English as my mother tongue and although we did study it at school, I've never really understood how it is structured. I feel sorry for those who have to learn it because it seems very difficult, and most people who learn it never speak it with a good accent.
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