| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | 'bulling' or 'bullying'? Thread poster: Lia Fail (X)
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Parrot 
Spain
Local time: 10:34
Spanish to English
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| Well, long before I heard 'hacer footing' | Sep 29, 2004 |
Ailish Maher wrote:
What I'm curious to know is whether it has been/is being 'transferred' incorrectly. (Reminds me of 'footing', which is the ES word for 'jogging', one wonders where it came from.)
I was hearing a lot of "faire du footing", which made French a suspect medium for me (occurs a lot in other Spanish transfers).
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 01:34
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
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The word is "bullying" in English, but in casual speech it could really be difficult to hear the difference between "bullying" and "bulling", especially for a non-native speaker.
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And as John wrote, if you think it's bad in Spain, you should see how the Germans massacre the English language (a form of revenge, I suppose).
Gesundheit! Did somebody say Far fig noogin? And while we're at it, would anyone in Russia like a glass of buhzhelaih?
This is getting really Woolly Bully...
Thanks to everyone on this string. So many of you made me laugh!!!
Carley
| | | | sarahl (X)
Local time: 01:34
English to French
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| Probably pronunciation rather than spelling | Sep 29, 2004 |
bully-ing must be a jaw-breaker to a Spanish mouth.
Brings to mind the French mispronunciation of sweatshirt, "le sweet", arrgh!
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Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 10:34
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Yes, but the word 'bulling' is not used in this context in EN | Sep 29, 2004 |
Maria Luisa Duarte wrote:
The terminology used in Spain is Bulling and not “Bullying”. It’s an English word applied in Spanish. So, it has nothing to do with bad pronunciation or misspelling.
MLD
But maybe it does have to do with 'bad' pronunciation/spelling - bull-ing for bully-ing is phonologically easier for ES speakers - resulting in 'bad' transfer. Some ES pyschologist introduced it to Spain, mispronouncing/misspelling it, and there you have the error ... perpetuated. Before you know it, it will enter DRAE!
'Mobbing' a new concept in Spain, was transferred correctly, becuase it's easier to pronounce/spell (but see the over 800 misspellings - 'mobing' - in ES sites).
I was interested to hear what others thought, but on the face of it, it seems that the word which should be 'transferred' is the 'preferred term', i.e. 'bullying'.
Since this new use of 'bull(ing)' to refer to 'bully(ing)' isn't in dictionaries, the only way to make a crude check on usage is on the WWW.
Google:
*"bullying" + children + school* 247,000 hits
*"bulling" + children + school* 2,590 hits
(And yes, it does seem to be referred to as 'bulling' down under; ..... and 'bulling' could also easily be a typo for 'bullying', as many of the sites that use 'bulling' also refer to 'bullying').
The issue interested me
a) becuase 'be bulling' has an age-old meaning in relation to a 'cow in heat', which is why its use in the context of schoolchildren struck me as so odd (and laughably ridiculous!).
b) becuase of the question of terminological theories about new words, whether borrowed or translated, applied to professions and areas of knowledge.
At the end of the day, wouldn't it be better to coin a new word, rather than borrow a word, and if a word is borrowed, to borrow it correctly?
[Edited at 2004-09-29 22:32]
[Edited at 2004-09-30 00:04]
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 10:34
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | It wasn't simply mispronounced | Sep 29, 2004 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
Hi Ailish, couldn't it just be a matter of pronunciation rather than spelling? Some Americans give speeches about 'terrists' I'm told.
Sorry Kim and Maria Luisa, I misled you there.
I saw it written in subtitles or on paper, can't remember which.
What's more, I then checked in Google, where there are 21 hits for *bulling + agresión*. There are 427 hits for *bullying + agresión* BUT the latter MOSTLY in parallel language sites (possibly sourced in the USA).
Obviously the term may be mispronounced/misspelt by people in the street, but MOST of the 21 hits mentioned above are papers on the subject......... so the experts are getting it wrong, very wrong:-)
[Edited at 2004-09-30 00:05]
| | | | | This opens up another can of worms... | Sep 30, 2004 |
Ailish Maher wrote:
'Mobbing' a new concept in Spain, was transferred correctly, becuase it's easier to pronounce/spell (but see the over 800 misspellings - 'mobing' - in ES sites).
[Edited at 2004-09-29 22:32]
[Edited at 2004-09-30 00:04]
"Mobbing" has been used in German for several years, meaning "bullying at the office", "ganging up on a fellow worker" etc etc. However, "mobbing" in English is only used a) to describe birds' behaviour, when a large number of birds "gang up" to drive an intruder off their territory - presumably the meaning which is at the back of the loan usage in German and Spnish - or b) in a positive sense, although sometimes frightening or dangerous, of a pop star/film star/footballer etc. being besieged by ecstatic fans.
I have been told in no uncertain terms by a number of native German speakers that the usage of "mobbing" in German and English is identical, and have heard them give resentations in English in which "mobbing" and "to mob" are used as if they were the normal English expression! This is what I meant when I mentioned having to "defend" English usage - sometimes to litle avail!!
| | | | Terry Gilman
Germany
Local time: 10:34
Member (2003)
German to English
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| mobbing is an English word? | Sep 30, 2004 |
You mention that Spain's taken on "mobbing" correctly.
I thought this was another piece of Germlish like handy or beamer, since, interestingly, there is no common word in German for bullying. (Now off to check "Psychology Today").
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nothing
Local time: 09:34
English to Spanish
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| Wrong transfer | Sep 30, 2004 |
but not in the way you mean. The right transfer of bullying to Spanish should be bulin as most transfers are (or at least used to be) done by transcribing the sound of the word (as long as it is easy enough to pronounce for apanish-speaking person) as it would be written in Spanish. For example, football, fútbol.
There is also another tendency to change the end of words with an -ing ending, e.g monitoing, monitoreo. In that case, bullying would become buleo
Of course ... See more but not in the way you mean. The right transfer of bullying to Spanish should be bulin as most transfers are (or at least used to be) done by transcribing the sound of the word (as long as it is easy enough to pronounce for apanish-speaking person) as it would be written in Spanish. For example, football, fútbol.
There is also another tendency to change the end of words with an -ing ending, e.g monitoing, monitoreo. In that case, bullying would become buleo
Of course I would rather use acoso for bullying and get done with it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 10:34
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | New one for me! | Sep 30, 2004 |
John Bowden wrote:
.... "mobbing" in English is only used a) to describe birds' behaviour, when a large number of birds "gang up" to drive an intruder off their territory - presumably the meaning which is at the back of the loan usage in German and Spnish - or b) in a positive sense, although sometimes frightening or dangerous, of a pop star/film star/footballer etc. being besieged by ecstatic fans.
This is what I meant when I mentioned having to "defend" English usage - sometimes to litle avail!!
So how is the notion of being bullied at the office referred to in EN? Have they coined or adapated a new word for it? I assumed it was 'mobbing', so now I'm intrigued about the origins of 'mobbing' as used in ES:-)
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Now y'all got me intrigued. Mobbing is also used frequently in Italy. I just entered mobbing and office in a search engines and found books written by American authors on the subject, and yes, called mobbing. I didn't find any UK references but probably because I use a Canadian search engine...
Vicky
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Vicky Shelton wrote:
Now y'all got me intrigued. Mobbing is also used frequently in Italy. I just entered mobbing and office in a search engines and found books written by American authors on the subject, and yes, called mobbing. I didn't find any UK references but probably because I use a Canadian search engine...
Vicky
is an interesting example of an English word wrongly adopted in to a foreign language and then, much later, re-introduced in to English in its changed meaning:
"Mobbing is a modern term for systematic bullying, harassment, or psychological terror in workplaces whereby one worker is "ganged up" on and stigmatized by co-workers or superiors for no justifiable reason. Research into the phenomenon has been pioneered in the 1980s by the Swedish scientist Heinz Leymann who coined the term....
A longer-established technical use of mobbing is in the study of animal behaviour especially in ornithology, where it refers to the behaviour of a number of smaller birds together harassing a bird of prey that represents a threat to them."
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Mobbing
I would say, although I may be wrong, that at the moment the term is seldom if ever used in British English, although it does seem to have entered North American and Australian English. The usual term in the UK is "workplace bullying" I think.
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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 04:34
| Yes! That's it! Nukular terrists bulling us! :) :) :) | Sep 30, 2004 |
Alison Riddell-Kachur wrote: Would they be nukular terrists  
To get back to Ailish question, I believe it is a case of bad transfer, since the correct English term is Bullying. It also surprises me that it is being used in Spain, since there's always been a term to describe this type of person/behaviour: abusador.
However, I cannot help but think it could not be any other way in Spain, given the "corridas de toros" tradition in the country. The term bulling brings to my mind and immediate reference to the toros!
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 04:34
| If we are to follow this logic..., | Sep 30, 2004 |
Maria Luisa Duarte wrote:
She heard the news on Spanish television. The terminology used in Spain is Bulling and not “Bullying”. It’s an English word applied in Spanish. So, it has nothing to do with bad pronunciation or misspelling.
Hope that this helps to clarify the matter.
MLD
If it has nothing to do with bad pronunciation or misspelling and it is, in fact, an adaptation, should it no be "buling" then? After all, that is how they have adapted many words. fútbol, béisbol, esquí, and so on... In my humble opinion, either we adapt to Spanish, or we leave the exact term in English... adapting "football" to "footbol" or to "futball" surely does not cut it!
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 10:34
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Reply to Rosa | Sep 30, 2004 |
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote: It also surprises me that it is being used in Spain, since there's always been a term to describe this type of person/behaviour: abusador. However, I cannot help but think it could not be any other way in Spain, given the "corridas de toros" tradition in the country. The term bulling brings to my mind and immediate reference to the toros!
Hi Rosa
The problem with 'abusador' is probably that it's too generic, as it can also refer to adults, women, etc, whereas 'bullying' is very specifically 'big/strong/aggressive young people/children' hassling 'small/weaker/more sensitive young people/children'.
As for the 2nd item, the OED defines 'bull' as a verb meaning to 'dominate, with violence', although I had never heard of it used this way. So that would tie in with the 'toros':-)
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