Use of the comparative Thread poster: Emma Goldsmith
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Emma Goldsmith 
Spain
Local time: 04:11
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
I get into all sorts of problems using the comparative in sentences where the verb doesn't appear until later in the sentence.
I am stuck on a sentence right now that needs to read as follows:
The longer the follow-up time, more accurate will the findings be.
(This refers to the follow-up time in a clinical trial on heart disease. Obviously a 20-year follow-up will produce more accurate findings than a 2-year follow-up.)
But is it grammatically corre... See more I get into all sorts of problems using the comparative in sentences where the verb doesn't appear until later in the sentence.
I am stuck on a sentence right now that needs to read as follows:
The longer the follow-up time, more accurate will the findings be.
(This refers to the follow-up time in a clinical trial on heart disease. Obviously a 20-year follow-up will produce more accurate findings than a 2-year follow-up.)
But is it grammatically correct?
Can anyone explain the rule to me or point me to some link on it?
Thanks in advance! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 04:11
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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| The way you placed the subject.../ word order | Nov 27, 2010 |
IMO, you should put the subject first, as follows:
The longer the follow-up time, the more accurate the findings will be.
and not:
The longer the follow-up time, more accurate will the findings be.
Also I believe "the" is required before "more accurate", in this kind of expression.
[Edited at 2010-11-27 20:52 GMT]
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 04:11
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Isn't there a second "the" missing anyway (the longer, the more)?
To my non-native ear, it should be "The longer the follow-up time, the more accurate the findings will be."
[Bearbeitet am 2010-11-27 20:56 GMT]
| | | | | Alternatives | Nov 27, 2010 |
I would phrase the sentence as follows:
The longer the follow-up time, the more accurate the findings will be.
Or change it to something different altogether:
A longer follow-up time will result in more accurate findings.
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James McVay
United States
Local time: 22:11
Russian to English
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| Grammatical? | Nov 28, 2010 |
But is it grammatically correct?Gra
Can anyone explain the rule to me or point me to some link on it?
I can't find a rule about this particular sentence construction, but it is known as a "verbless sentence." And yes, it is grammatical. Pay attention to the various suggestions by the other people who made comments, though.
| | | | anna_kas
Russian Federation
Local time: 07:11
English to Russian
| mediamatrix (X)
Local time: 22:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Standard UK English construction | Nov 28, 2010 |
In my native UK English, not only is a second 'the' needed, we also don't split 'will' and 'be'; and 'will be' is moved forwards so it doesn't come at the end of the sentence, thus:
The longer the follow-up time, the more accurate will be the findings.
A Google search for the very common phrase "greater will be the rewards" (between quotes) will give over 40 thousand examples of this construction
e.g.: "Retirement and pension planning can begin at a... See more In my native UK English, not only is a second 'the' needed, we also don't split 'will' and 'be'; and 'will be' is moved forwards so it doesn't come at the end of the sentence, thus:
The longer the follow-up time, the more accurate will be the findings.
A Google search for the very common phrase "greater will be the rewards" (between quotes) will give over 40 thousand examples of this construction
e.g.: "Retirement and pension planning can begin at a young age – in fact, the sooner you start your plan for retirement the greater will be the rewards."
MediaMatrix ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:11
French to English
+ ...
| To my ear... | Nov 28, 2010 |
...it has to be "The longer the follow-up time, the more accurate the findings will be.", like Lingua 5B and others say.
There's also the construction "The longer the follow-up time, the more accurate will be the findings.", but it sounds a bit odd for this particular sentence.
[Edited at 2010-11-28 10:47 GMT]
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Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 04:11
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER | "comparative correlative construction" | Nov 28, 2010 |
Thank you everyone for your comments. I agree, the second "the" was missing, and I shouldn't split the verb. There is consensus on both these points.
Whether the verb can come at the end of the sentence appears to be debatable.
I've searched and searched this morning to find out more about this construction. James' "verbless sentence" helped, but I finally discovered that it is called a "comparative correlative construction".
Although most comparative correlativ... See more Thank you everyone for your comments. I agree, the second "the" was missing, and I shouldn't split the verb. There is consensus on both these points.
Whether the verb can come at the end of the sentence appears to be debatable.
I've searched and searched this morning to find out more about this construction. James' "verbless sentence" helped, but I finally discovered that it is called a "comparative correlative construction".
Although most comparative correlatives contain a verb, the sentence can indeed be verbless: "The more intelligent the students, the better the marks".
And it seems that the verb can come at the end of the sentence:
The longer the storm lasts, the worse the damage is.
The better the car, the more expensive it is.
If anyone else is interested in the nitty gritty of comparative correlatives, here are 2 good refs:
http://csli-publications.stanford.edu/HPSG/5/borsley.pdf
http://www.ling.umd.edu/publications/generals/Taylor.pdf
Thanks again everyone. The more you learn, the better your translations are! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neil Coffey
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:11
French to English
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| Usual word order | Nov 28, 2010 |
mediamatrix wrote:
In my native UK English, not only is a second 'the' needed, we also don't split 'will' and 'be'; and 'will be' is moved forwards so it doesn't come at the end of the sentence, thus:
The longer the follow-up time, the more accurate will be the findings.
A Google search for the very common phrase "greater will be the rewards" (between quotes) will give over 40 thousand examples of this construction
MediaMatrix
As another native speaker of UK English, I'd say that "the more accurate will be..." sounds somewhat literary to me. As you say, people do sometimes use expressions that distort the usual word order, "greater will be the rewards", "people do not a society make" etc. But the most neutral, natural solution would still be to preserve normal word order to my ear:
"... the more accurate the findings will be."
Compare the examples given by Swan (sec 139) which generally preserve this "normal" word order (though with the usual caveat that Swan doesn't back his observations up with any actual data).
However, it's probably fair to say that this is one of those constructions that's slightly "on the fringe" of the language and the various alternatives we've seen here would surely occur among native speakers.
Or, another way of answering the original question:
- as a native speaker, put the version that sounds natural to you;
- if no version sounds natural to you, just phrase your text in some other way.
[Edited at 2010-11-29 14:10 GMT]
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 04:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Take the alternative | Nov 28, 2010 |
I think that the reason why this sentence just isn't cutting it for you is because it sounds like you're addressing a child. I'd go for the rephrased alternative. It sound much more professional. Well done Amel.
| | | | Paul Adie (X)
Germany
Spanish to English
+ ...
| I wouldn't place 'will' and 'be' together. | Nov 28, 2010 |
And just to throw someone else's opinion into the pot, I wouldn't place 'will' and 'be' together. As said above, it sounds very bookish and unnatural to me. Perhaps this was more usual a few decades ago. I also think that 'splitting' an infinitive (there are two words, I never understood where the splitting came in) is fine and natural. Don't shoot me!
Happy translating,
Paul.
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