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avvolgente
spina di riferimento
Jan 8, 2015 10:54
9 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Italian term

caldo

Italian to English Other Wine / Oenology / Viticulture
I'm translating a wine text which frequently uses the word 'caldo' and I'm struggling to translate it. I presume it essentially means 'high in alcohol' but I still can't find the right word for it in context. E.g.:

Un colore paglierino tenue caratterizza il Verdicchio di Matelica Riserva DOCG, vino fruttato con note di frutta candita e sambuco, caldo e persistente al palato, con retrogusto ammandorlato.

Many thanks for any help.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 warm
5 fervent
4 -1 warm / rich

Discussion

Yvonne Gallagher Jan 11, 2015:
@ Giles
I'm far from being a novice in this area. My interest in wine was first sparked way back in 1970/71 when I did the vendanges in Châteauneuf-du-Pape,Côtes du Rhône and Beaujolais. The aim was to improve my French but I also learned a lot about French cuisine and wine because the patrons took me under their wing (as the only non-Maghreb foreigner) and let me taste from their cellars. I've done several guided tastings since then and a tour of Bordeaux. Plus drank a lot of wine! I don't work from It>En (just a bit of Kudoz) but have worked from Fr>En in this area and if I saw "chaud" I'd translate it as "hot". High in alcohol is not always "overly high" as many people like well-structured high-alcohol wines. Anyway, basta! Over and out...
Giles Watson Jan 11, 2015:
Getting warmer "Warm" implies the wine is relatively high in alcohol; "hot" is too much.

If you've started reading round the subject, you might want to take advantage of any guided tastings there are in your area. Nothing beats hands-on (or rather, "palates-on") experience ;-)
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 10, 2015:
@ Giles So the correct English word is "hot" then if it's high in alcohol? And no, I haven't come upon "warm" except in translations and I've done a fair amount of reading on wine and Googling, e.g. I gave a link below thinking it was English but then realised it was an Italian restaurant so was more probably a translation...Anyway, I'm certainly not convinced about using "warm" here...
Giles Watson Jan 10, 2015:
@Gallagy "Warm" and its equivalents in other languages are used to mean "high in alcohol content", the reason being that alcohol provokes a sensation of warmth in the mouth. If you can't find any examples of this in English, you must be looking in the wrong places ;-)

"Warm on the palette", however, means nothing at all, except that you are confusing the common winespeak metaphor of a (painter's) "palette of aroma(tic)s" with the roof of the mouth!
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 10, 2015:
@ GilesI just find it strange that "caldo" is seen in translation as "warm" but "warm" is not used in English writing. I'm curious to know what you think "warm on the palette" means? According to the Guardian link you gave it seems to equal "hot" as in high alcohol? "plenty of palate-warming alcohol" Also the 2nd English link has "high, palate warming alcohol"
I assume that links from Italy etc are translations... OK that Isabelle is happy with "warm" but maybe if it actually means "high in alcohol" she should be using "hot"?? I just want to get at the best word, that's all :-)
Isabelle Johnson (asker) Jan 8, 2015:
I'm very happy with warm on the palate which I think is a good solution. It was the word warm on its own which I was trying to avoid and that is in fact why I put this question in. I'm not sure about warming as I don't think, Phil, that it's about it being welcoming. Very much appreciate all the thoughts on this.
Giles Watson Jan 8, 2015:
Getting warmer I can't really see why Gallagy objects to "warm on the palate" on the supposed grounds that it is only used in translations from Italian into English. The first five googles I get for wine+"warm on the palate" hail from Spain, Italy, Slovenia, Australia and California. Wine+"palate-warming alcohol" turns up similar results, including at least one US wine writer: http://www.winealign.com/articles/2014/07/25/a-cult-napa-tas...
and an article from the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/1999/nov/07/foodandd...

FWIW
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 8, 2015:
@ Isabelle
Yes "warm on the palate" is used and is certainly the easiest solution but my reservations stem from the fact that this term is only used as a translation from Italian (from what I can see) and not by English-language wine writers. Also, I certainly wouldn't translate "caldo" as "chaud" in French in the same context so would be reluctant to use "warm" for those reasons.
Isabelle Johnson (asker) Jan 8, 2015:
Thanks to all on this. Warm on the palate is in fact commonly used and looks like a good compromise solution so thanks to Kate, Gallagy and Elena.
Elena Zanetti Jan 8, 2015:
Da un gusto liscio in bocca questo è un vino fresco, mediamente corposo e piacevolmente caldo....
chiudo qui la discussione..
Elena Zanetti Jan 8, 2015:
il significato è lo stesso.. perché ha una pseudo gradazione alcolica..
Elena Zanetti Jan 8, 2015:
http://www.sottocoperta.net/cucina/enologia/art38.htm
Kate Chaffer Jan 8, 2015:
caldo e persistente al palato Look at the phrase as a whole. Caldo is not used on its own but together with al palato. Warm on the palate is a very widely used expression.
Elena Zanetti Jan 8, 2015:
full-bodied, rich , powerful.. is corposo... different from caldo.. Vino nell'insieme caldo, intenso e alquanto corposo, ben equilibrato e avvolgente
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 8, 2015:
just came across this, where "warm" is used a couple of times
http://www.casanova-restaurant.com/wine. But "warm" always seems to be a translation from Italian and not used by any of the great wine writers in original English. So comes down to finding a term matching what you think they want to say in each instance...

Proposed translations

-1
25 mins

warm / rich

Declined
this has already been defined in the Proz term search, see below
Reference:

http://www.proz.com/?sp=mt&eid_s=652502

Note from asker:
As I explained above I don't think warm works as a wine term. Rich may. I'll think about it. Thanks for your help.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Elena Zanetti : rich is not the same as caldo..
45 mins
Something went wrong...
+4
3 mins

warm

Declined
.

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Note added at 4 min (2015-01-08 10:58:56 GMT)
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http://www.winediffusion.it/EngSite/Terminology.htm

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Note added at 7 min (2015-01-08 11:02:21 GMT)
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you can use warm..

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Note added at 13 min (2015-01-08 11:07:38 GMT)
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http://www.decantalo.com/en/spanish-wine-world_c16/wine-glos...

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Note added at 13 min (2015-01-08 11:08:00 GMT)
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it's a term used for wines.......

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 min (2015-01-08 11:11:50 GMT)
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such as.... hot wine...

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Note added at 17 min (2015-01-08 11:12:23 GMT)
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if you use high in alcohol.... it can be warm or hot...

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Note added at 21 min (2015-01-08 11:16:32 GMT)
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anyway high in alcohol is not the right term... it is misleading... ................

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Note added at 23 min (2015-01-08 11:18:14 GMT)
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Caldo
Si dice di un vino in cui si percepisce una decisa sensazione pseudocalorica che è differente da high in alcohol...

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Note added at 4 ore (2015-01-08 15:21:48 GMT)
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era una battuta la tua conoscenza sul vino, per dire che magari sei astemia... ci mancherebbe, ti dico la mia opinione da madrelingua italiana... che tu non sia convinta ok.... però dei madrelingua inglesi mi hanno dato agree...ripeto..

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Note added at 4 ore (2015-01-08 15:23:48 GMT)
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non capisco la riluttanza a usare warm e voler mettere rich che è sbagliato...

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Note added at 4 ore (2015-01-08 15:24:50 GMT)
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ci mancherebbe siete voi i madrelingua... io ho detto la mia opinione..

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Note added at 5 ore (2015-01-08 15:56:17 GMT)
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magari può darsi che caldo e persistente al palato sia un unico blocco, grazie a te, buon lavoro!
Note from asker:
Thanks for this but although warm is the literal translation I can't see that it means anything in relation to wine in English.
I appreciate the effort you've put into this but neither of the glossaries you show has been written by a native English speaker and the English in them is not encouraging. Warm, as far as I can see, is not a wine term in English.
Non sono sicura di apprezzare il tuo commento sulla mia conoscenza del vino che mi sembra abbastanza buona invece... Warm on the palate in effetti trovo usato spesso ed è una possibilità. Warm da solo non mi sembra e sono d'accordo con Gallagy.
Hello again Elena. Don't worry. I'm not going to put rich. I put this question in because I was trying to avoid the literal 'warm' which I don't think is used alone in English as a wine word. 'Warm on the palate', however, apparently is and I will use it. Thanks again.
Peer comment(s):
agree Kate Chaffer : warm on the palate, definitely a wine term https://www.google.it/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=...
37 mins
thanks! l'asker conosce poco il vino ..
agree Rachel Fell : as confirmed by Watson's Wine Glossary
47 mins
thanks! l'asker conosce poco il vino..
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : "warm" usually used for whiskey/sherry//BUT "warm" is always a translation, not used in original English as far as I know. (and Giles Watson is a translator)/you don't seem to be getting the point...
1 hr
but full-bodied rich and intense is not the same as caldo.. full-bodied is corposo.. // the same thing....rich not the same as caldo..you wrote it...
neutral Edgar Bettridge : warming even better - http://www.waitrosecellar.com/christmas/christmas-drinks/chr...
3 hrs
thanks
agree philgoddard : I don't see why the asker has rejected this. There are only two ways you can translate it, and "hot" is obviously not right. I take it to mean friendly and welcoming.
4 hrs
I don't know...
agree Simo Blom
1 day 2 hrs
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

fervent

Declined
You can use warm, bt in this case I guess you have to emphasize the concept.
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : very convincing refs to back 100% confidence
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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